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Subject: Is "No planting grape strategy" advantage people that plant grape? rss

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Poom Pathonsmith
Thailand
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I play many time this week with my freind and we play tuscany since the game issue and one thing still bother me about this game is almost 70% of winner win without planting any grape. Sometimes they even sell all land and keep getting a point from selling a land track which compare to other player who doesn't compete on this track because they keep it fir their grape or not have enough action to spend on this selling land. Many other ways "no planting grape" player get points is via testing room which they get wine from trading action for grape juice in crush pad and covert it to wine, which require only few action compare to plant on their own land. They also use trading technique to get grape and wine for winter visitor and get a lot of point from card like "fionse" or "judge".
There point increse steadily every season while grape planter have to search for their grape search for the order, planting, havesting, make wine which require a lot of actions
Is there anything to win that strategy?

 
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Aernout Casier
Netherlands
Nijmegen
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It is much, much easier to win simply by planting vines and filling orders than any of the other ays. Especially the way you describe above, which yields 1 point or 2 points per year...
Our games, on average, last 7 years.
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M.C.Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
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AndurilFOTW wrote:
I play many time this week with my freind and we play tuscany since the game issue and one thing still bother me about this game is almost 70% of winner win without planting any grape. Sometimes they even sell all land and keep getting a point from selling a land track which compare to other player who doesn't compete on this track because they keep it fir their grape or not have enough action to spend on this selling land. Many other ways "no planting grape" player get points is via testing room which they get wine from trading action for grape juice in crush pad and covert it to wine, which require only few action compare to plant on their own land. They also use trading technique to get grape and wine for winter visitor and get a lot of point from card like "fionse" or "judge".
There point increse steadily every season while grape planter have to search for their grape search for the order, planting, havesting, make wine which require a lot of actions
Is there anything to win that strategy?
Generally I think this happens when people play Viticulture in "multiplayer solitaire" mode. You need to keep an eye on what other people are doing and try to prevent them from taking the "free" VP route, while also generating VP through your chosen strategy.
 
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M.C.Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
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AernoutMJC wrote:
It is much, much easier to win simply by planting vines and filling orders than any of the other ways.
I don't think this is true, otherwise we wouldn't see the OP's thread being posted so regularly. Neither would there be a need for rule changes such as the one for the Tasting Table. I believe that the game is best won through a balance of taking Wine-related points when you can, but taking "free" points on the off turn when you know you can't make wine points.
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Eric Hogue
United States
O'fallon
IL
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mccrispy wrote:
AernoutMJC wrote:
It is much, much easier to win simply by planting vines and filling orders than any of the other ways.
I don't think this is true, otherwise we wouldn't see the OP's thread being posted so regularly. Neither would there be a need for rule changes such as the one for the Tasting Table. I believe that the game is best won through a balance of taking Wine-related points when you can, but taking "free" points on the off turn when you know you can't make wine points.


It takes considerable luck to win in six years without planting vines in standard (20-point) Viticulture, making the 25 that Tuscany requires is even harder. In 7 years a productive vineyard will usually be able to surpass the no-grape strategy, generally I see at least one vine-planter in the 27-28 point range in 7 years.

However, many players seem to need 8-10 years to make a vineyard and get the wine orders out. for them, strategies without graps can seem to dominate. They are a very reliable way to end the game in 7-8 years.

With all due respect to AndurilFOTW, the answer to your conundrum is to play more efficiently when making wines. There is no one sure way to do this, but one suggestion: harvest the grapes and get lots of wine orders before you make wine.
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Eleon Forsht
United States
College Park
MD
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People in my group complain that the only way to win is to plant grapes and sell the right wines at the right time.

They are mostly right. You will not win in the games we play without making wine. The winner is the player that can make win and adapt one other tactic to also get victory points (be it tasting room, or planting vines for points or other once a year point tools). Also having the right visitor cards to get those extra 3 to 5 points on the last turn is also critical.

If I am playing in a game and none of the other players are planting or selling wine, I am in heaven as I can then double plant, double harvest, make more win, and sell them for extra VP.

The average score of the games I play is around 30 to 34. Getting to 25 points in 7 years will not win you the game, you need to plan on a larger jump (unless you can get to 25 points the year before everyone else is ready for their last push).
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Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
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I would concur. Even playing Tuscany, there is simply no way to win without making wines. It is true that, as the OP suggests, early on in the game you can take the lead by scraping together these small VP actions. But there is no doubt that the winner will make gigantic leaps at the end game with their wine making engine before you can secure a win that way. At least, if people know what they are doing.

Even if you did manage to remain competitive until the endgame, you will see the eventual winner vault past you in the last turn. It is not uncommon to see people putting down 7 to 10 VP (or even more occasionally) in the last turn with their wine making strategy. You simply cannot compete with that kind of power at the end game if you are grabbing a measly 1, 2 or 3 still.

However, paying attention to these small VP caches can often be the difference between the victor at the end. So they are very important.
 
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