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Subject: How much value do the KS exclusive minis add to the game? rss

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Erik Andersson
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I really want this game. I need this game. I've heard so much nice things about it and I want to paint the minis. However CMON has a very strange business plan I think since they add so much great stuff if you back their games on Kickstarter that it almost feels pointless to buy their games at retail. I have even said to myself that I will never buy their games at retail just because of this (I have backed three of their Kickstarters though).

Blood Rage might be the exception though. Alternatively I can try to buy a Ragnarök pledge on ebay but the prices are insane. I have went down this road once when I wanted everything for Rum & Bones s1, that was expensive and I am not keen to do it again...

So how much value does the KS stuff add to the game? Does it change the core of the game or is it just extra fluff? If I understand it correctly I can buy the Goss and Mystics at retail, so the four monsters is the only extras? (Except for KS exclusive sculpts). Is the KS faction much different?

Board games are quite expensive in Sweden, but even if I buy Gods and Mystics the Ragnarok pledge will be more than twice the price.

Sorry for wall of text, will love some advice What do we know about Chronicles of hate? Will it be similar to BR?


 
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Björn Franke
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I think the most important expansion ist the Mystics expansion. The KS stuff is nice but I don't believe that they are game changing enought to warrant the high second market prices. What comes with the game is enough to enjoy it the way it was ment to be.
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Nigel McNaughton
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And the KS Faction is just again another set of sculpts. No game changing abilities or anything.
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Jim Marshall
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I've got the retail game, 5p expansion and mystics. Still to play with the mystics (they're part-painted), but I'm more than happy with what I've got, and the great majority of the people I've played it with enjoyed it too.

If you were to buy all the retail stuff (and while that in itself won't be cheap, it will be cheaper than the money people are asking for the KS edition) all you'd be missing is 4 monsters I believe. Not a big miss in my book, and while I haven't played with the KS-only monsters I recall seeing some threads on the balance of some of those monsters on BGG which maybe worth a look.
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Iain Brown
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The extra monsters are nice to haves, but far from essential, and a bunch of people I've played with hate Fenrir. Mystics are ok, gods have generally gone down poorly in plays I've had.

So I'd pretty much recommend just getting the base game and maybe the 5 player expansion.
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Keith Dennard
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I'd agree with that. My first few plays were with the Kickstarter extras. I subsequently bought my own retail copy and have played half a dozen times without the additional monsters. The game is still great without them, and the Mystics and Gods expansions are available at retail if you want to add them.
 
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Jack
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The Wolfman isn't exactly one of my group's favorites either.
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A Frag
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I got it all and had to pay for it on eBay. Although at a much friendlier price than what it's going for today. I love it all. Although the Mystic Troll and Fenrir are not always a fan favorite the Mountain Giant and the Wolfman can be down right OP at times.

The Mountain Giant is just a great monster for Age 1. Even in later ages he benefits from the leader upgrades and the free invasion cost just makes him a quick early choice in the first age.

The Wolfman is crazy, when he is in the game you had better have some monsters on the board…

All in all, far from essential and borderline swingy. The core game is great without them, but definitely fun if you can get them...
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Dan Angevine
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They're nice to have but not worth the crazy markup. You could always proxy them in and just replace a couple cards. God's expansion is weakest by far. Enough other monsters on the board without those 4

I am a completioniat so I get that but game feels good with them. Have a buddy who bought base after playing my ks copy. He's a bit choked to not have them but also feels it's a solid game without them
 
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A Frag
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I too am a completionist. It's a sickness I know, but for this reason I hate KS exclusive content. In the end, I think it limit's the games potential as there are some like me that will not purchase a game if I can't get all of the gameplay content. I don't care about things like alternate art etc., but if there is game content for a game not available to me, I just don't get it if I can't have it all. I know there are others like me. Please CMON, please stop creating KS exclusive content for your games and maybe release them to backers early and for no cost, but do make them available in retail at some point so as not exclude people...
 
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Paul Chamberland
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afrag wrote:
I too am a completionist. It's a sickness I know, but for this reason I hate KS exclusive content. In the end, I think it limit's the games potential as there are some like me that will not purchase a game if I can't get all of the gameplay content. I don't care about things like alternate art etc., but if there is game content for a game not available to me, I just don't get it if I can't have it all.

You seem to be missing promos for a few games on your owned listed. Castles of Burgundy, Orleans, and Power Grid for instance. Is there a reason these are exceptions?
 
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Iain Brown
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afrag wrote:
I too am a completionist. It's a sickness I know, but for this reason I hate KS exclusive content. In the end, I think it limit's the games potential as there are some like me that will not purchase a game if I can't get all of the gameplay content. I don't care about things like alternate art etc., but if there is game content for a game not available to me, I just don't get it if I can't have it all. I know there are others like me. Please CMON, please stop creating KS exclusive content for your games and maybe release them to backers early and for no cost, but do make them available in retail at some point so as not exclude people...


While their Kickstarters are literally making millions of dollars, I can't see them changing their strategy.
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Erik Andersson
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Thanks for all the input. Will go with the retail version and maybe proxy the minis (I have a friend who has the KS-stuff).

Do you think there is any risk for this game to go OOP? Should I grab it now or can I wait a while (I want to finish painting my Zombicide Black Plague minis before I paint this)?
 
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Iain Brown
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It's unlikely to go OOP yet, but I think the current print run is running low. In the UK it's getting harder to find, but I would expect another printing at some point.
 
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Erik Andersson
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I bought it and we have played three times now (2x2 players, 1x3 players). Both me and my girlfriend enjoy it very much, my brother liked it aswell.

Great game!
 
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Hugh J Jones
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My gaming group has the complete kickstarter version. The essentials are the 5th player expansion and mystics for sure, could skip the fifth player expansion if you don't have five players in your group. So far we've only played with the Gods Expansion once, and it was very underwhelming.

As for the kickstarter exclusives, I do like them but it is a great game without them. You'd only be missing out on the four new monsters and three alternates for Soldier of Hel, Dark Elf and Dwarf Chieftain. You can include in the alternates to have two of each in your game.

All this being said, my group got the items through the kickstarter but I wish they'd eventually release the exclusives as a stand alone expansion for those who were unable to get aboard the kickstarter. I know this will never happen but I wouldn't mind. The only people who'd be upset are a small handful of speculators and who really cares about them.

If I were you I'd still get the game even without the kickstarters exclusives, it's a very good game. Though I totally understand if you feel a little disappointed not getting the whole package, I'm a completionist myself so I totally relate. It's an extra sting if you really like the game but cannot experience the full experience, even if what you're missing out on is a very tiny addon.
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Eric B
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I'm in the same boat. I want to get Blood Rage, but feel like I would be missing out not having all the KS exclusives. I really wish if CMON felt it necessary to include KS exclusives, they would at the very least not make ones that alter the game. Give us different figure sculpts or extras of the existing figures or something? Nothing that actually alters the game though.

Ideally I wish they just gave things that couldn't even be used in the game. Art books, posters, etc. Maybe heavily discounted prices on their add-ons, or include them in pledges for slightly more?

At any rate I couldn't even buy Blood Rage if I wanted right now at retail since it seems to be sold out almost everywhere. I really hope they do another production run soon...
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Well .. Blood rage is a very nice game without any expansion, that's the most important thing.
The expansions and exclusives add some extras but you don't miss a lot if you don't have them.

That said:

Mountain Giant. I think this one should be part of the core game. He is the counterpart of what the Sea Serpent is for ships; he makes building and drafting cards around leaders a more viable option, adding some extra depth to the game. A STR3 monster without any extra abilities isn't all that overwhelming - but as he is a 1st age monster, he is pretty handy.
My rating:

Fenrir. Also a 1st age monster, STR2. Where he is, Ragnarok takes place. He also adds some options for building your deck around Ragnarok glory rewards and what's perhaps even stronger: by using him you can prevent your opponents from getting good Ragnarok rewards (and glory for units in Valhalla), especially in age 3. I have won games by not playing him until age 3 and then surprising everyone by playing him in a provice occupied by my troops.
My rating:

Wolfman. Only monsters (and battle cards) count STR while fighting him. He can be game breaking sometimes. Especially when people didn't draft a lot of monsters, or a lot of monster cards weren't in the draft - especially if you also use mystics and their cards you may miss out on a monster (or two).
My rating:

Mystic Troll. Age 3 monster, STR2. Your troops (not monsters) can invade his province for free. A bit underwhelming for an age 3 monster, as most players have plenty of rage by then and often provinces are already quite full. Very situational. As an age 2 monster he would be a lot stronger.
My rating:

5th player stuff: as is the 5th player expansion, it doesn't really bring something new, just more of the same.
I am actually a bit disappointed by the lack of more gameplay options the 5th player stuff brings.
My rating:
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Oscar Rehnberg
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That is a really bad marketing and retail tactic. What would then make people support a KS game? With the prices that you sometimes pay for KS games, it would be hard if not impossible to have a succesful KS. I own the KS edition, and I can say apart from looking great and fullfilling my completionist ticks the game is good even without the extras, just get the 5th player expansion and your good to go!
 
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Alessio Stevanato
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Teowulff wrote:


Mystic Troll. Age 3 monster, STR2. Your troops (not monsters) can invade his province for free. A bit underwhelming for an age 3 monster, as most players have plenty of rage by then and often provinces are already quite full. Very situational. As an age 2 monster he would be a lot stronger.
My rating:

Is your description right or this image https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2447654 from the kickstarter exclusive item?

"+1 STR to your other figures where the M.T. is"
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Steva90 wrote:
Teowulff wrote:


Mystic Troll. Age 3 monster, STR2. Your troops (not monsters) can invade his province for free. A bit underwhelming for an age 3 monster, as most players have plenty of rage by then and often provinces are already quite full. Very situational. As an age 2 monster he would be a lot stronger.
My rating:

Is your description right or this image https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2447654 from the kickstarter exclusive item?

"+1 STR to your other figures where the M.T. is"

A lot of cards have changed between the KS and the final release.
The Mystic Troll (alas) became:
 
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Hugh J Jones
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Are you sure your monsters cannot invade for free in the Mystic Trolls location? It simply says your figures, it doesn't say "your warriors" or "your non monsters"
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Alessio Stevanato
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thanks Teowulff

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Sputnik Monroe wrote:
Are you sure your monsters cannot invade for free in the Mystic Trolls location? It simply says your figures, it doesn't say "your warriors" or "your non monsters"

You're quite right. That may potentially give him some more use, depending own what units you have in your reserve and how many spaces are still left on the board. If I have a Fire Giant, Sea Serpent and such and the board is empty .. well ..
The thing is that in my games, it hardly happened that something like this was the case.
 
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Alessio Stevanato
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another little information about the monsters:
from picture I don't see ''player count X+'' on the cards so I presume that they are always present, right?
 
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