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Subject: Sierra Maestra Manifesto card rss

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Yani
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1. Does each faction or only eligible ones add 2 pieces to the board when the card resolves?

2. The syndicate bot instructions say: play ops+special instead. Does the bot add 2 non-casino pieces if it doesnt execute the event itself? Or does it take ops+special instead?

Thanks
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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coralsaw wrote:
1. Does each faction or only eligible ones add 2 pieces to the board when the card resolves?

2. The syndicate bot instructions say: play ops+special instead. Does the bot add 2 non-casino pieces if it doesnt execute the event itself? Or does it take ops+special instead?

Thanks



For the cards it is important to execute them exactly as described, no more, no less. So:

1. Card says every faction in eligibility order, so every faction adds the 2 non-casino pieces, and this doesn't count as their "turn" so they remain eligible for the current turn. Only the faction activating the card uses up their action for the turn.

2. That instruction is for if it is the Syndicate's turn and it has to choose whether to activate the event or take an ops/special instead. It means they will never activate the event. If a different faction activates the event they will just play the 2 non-casino pieces as instructed by the card.
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John Spicer
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A separate question about this card.

It says 'Add' 2 pieces. Does that mean you can remove two and then put two on elsewhere, as in a Rally? My understanding is that the words are to be taken literally, and taking 2 off and putting two on leaves the total unchanged so there is no 'add'.

Related to that, can you add 1 unit rather than 2 if you choose?

A game will be decided by the outcome - if I'm correct it's a 3 way draw with me coming last by 1 point!

 
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P. Fowler
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You can remove pieces from one space to add them into a second space if you're the one executing the Event. From 1.4.1, second bullet: "Important: A player Faction while executing an Operation, Special Activity, or Event may remove its own pieces (including Casinos) to Available Forces."

Also, there's a tie breaker: 7.1 says "Ties go to Non-players (8.0), then Syndicate, then Directorio, then 26July."
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John Spicer
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Thank you, hadn't spotted that general rule about events. And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

And tie breaker means DR wins I fear. Last bit of study before giving up hope!
 
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P. Fowler
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john s wrote:
And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

No. Only the faction that chose the Event is allowed to remove pieces from the map to place them. The other factions have to do with what is already Available.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
john s wrote:
And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

No. Only the faction that chose the Event is allowed to remove pieces from the map to place them. The other factions have to do with what is already Available.


Are you sure about that? All of the factions, while moving their pieces, are "executing" the event aren't they?
 
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P. Fowler
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
Turbine2k5 wrote:
john s wrote:
And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

No. Only the faction that chose the Event is allowed to remove pieces from the map to place them. The other factions have to do with what is already Available.


Are you sure about that? All of the factions, while moving their pieces, are "executing" the event aren't they?

Not necessarily. In the rules for how Sequence of Play operates (2.3.4), it refers to First or Second Eligible "...may execute either..." leading me to believe it is only the faction that actually selected the Event.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
Turbine2k5 wrote:
john s wrote:
And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

No. Only the faction that chose the Event is allowed to remove pieces from the map to place them. The other factions have to do with what is already Available.


Are you sure about that? All of the factions, while moving their pieces, are "executing" the event aren't they?

Not necessarily. In the rules for how Sequence of Play operates (2.3.4), it refers to First or Second Eligible "...may execute either..." leading me to believe it is only the faction that actually selected the Event.


I ask because the ability provided in 1.4.1. seems to cover just about any time a faction is able to move pieces. The only limit it seems to imply is that you must be "doing" something that enables movement to put your pieces in available, you can't just do it anytime. Event cards that provide abilities for all factions when executed would seem a weird place to me to place an arbitrary limit on this ability. I always assumed that the limitations of 1.4.1. were to prevent players from removing pieces from the board in response to another player's action. Just my two cents.
 
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P. Fowler
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
Turbine2k5 wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
Turbine2k5 wrote:
john s wrote:
And since for this card all players get the event it means everyone gets to move pieces around.

No. Only the faction that chose the Event is allowed to remove pieces from the map to place them. The other factions have to do with what is already Available.


Are you sure about that? All of the factions, while moving their pieces, are "executing" the event aren't they?

Not necessarily. In the rules for how Sequence of Play operates (2.3.4), it refers to First or Second Eligible "...may execute either..." leading me to believe it is only the faction that actually selected the Event.


I ask because the ability provided in 1.4.1. seems to cover just about any time a faction is able to move pieces. The only limit it seems to imply is that you must be "doing" something that enables movement to put your pieces in available, you can't just do it anytime. Event cards that provide abilities for all factions when executed would seem a weird place to me to place an arbitrary limit on this ability. I always assumed that the limitations of 1.4.1. were to prevent players from removing pieces from the board in response to another player's action. Just my two cents.

I see where you're going. My feeling is that there's only a handful of times where a faction other than the one who is 1st or 2nd Eligible is able to place pieces onto the map. Generally, this is within some implied agreement between the two factions. However, some players may be wanting to use most of an Event's text without triggering piece placement. (As an example, #42. Llano says, "Slums to arms: Place a 26July Base and any Guerrilla in a City." DR may want to use this to place a Guerrilla in Active Support Havana without allowing 26July to place their Base. Just because 26July has an effect, doesn't mean they are executing anything on the card.)
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Turbine2k5 is right.

Only the 1st or 2nd Eligible Faction that spent its Sequence of Play option to do an action or Event counts as "executing" it. Section 2.3 is quite clear on this, starting with its very first sentence:
Quote:
When playing an Event card, up to 2 Factions will execute Opera-
tions or the Event; other Factions may Pass and collect Resources.

It then goes on to explain that only one of the two Factions acting on a given card can execute the Event (rule 2.3.4).

Because of this, the 1.4.1 option to remove the Faction's pieces is only available to the Faction that is currently using its Sequence of Play option.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Oerjan Ariander
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
However, some players may be wanting to use most of an Event's text without triggering piece placement. (As an example, #42. Llano says, "Slums to arms: Place a 26July Base and any Guerrilla in a City." DR may want to use this to place a Guerrilla in Active Support Havana without allowing 26July to place their Base. Just because 26July has an effect, doesn't mean they are executing anything on the card.)

Iffy example. This Event does not let the M26 place pieces; it lets the Faction executing the Event place M26 pieces. If the DR executes the Event, it places 1 Available M26 Guerrilla and 1 Available M26 Base in a City of the DR's choice.

These M26 pieces must come from Available: DR is executing, and cannot use 1.4.1 to remove another Faction's pieces.

However, DR cannot choose to not place a Base if M26 has one Available: the Event text says to place an M26 Base, so whoever executes it must place an M26 Base if it is at all possible to do so (i.e., there is one Available and there is a City with room for a Base).

Regards,
Oerjan
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P. Fowler
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Oerjan wrote:
Turbine2k5 wrote:
However, some players may be wanting to use most of an Event's text without triggering piece placement. (As an example, #42. Llano says, "Slums to arms: Place a 26July Base and any Guerrilla in a City." DR may want to use this to place a Guerrilla in Active Support Havana without allowing 26July to place their Base. Just because 26July has an effect, doesn't mean they are executing anything on the card.)

Iffy example. This Event does not let the M26 place pieces; it lets the Faction executing the Event place M26 pieces. If the DR executes the Event, it places 1 Available M26 Guerrilla and 1 Available M26 Base in a City of the DR's choice.

These M26 pieces must come from Available: DR is executing, and cannot use 1.4.1 to remove another Faction's pieces.

However, DR cannot choose to not place a Base if M26 has one Available: the Event text says to place an M26 Base, so whoever executes it must place an M26 Base if it is at all possible to do so (i.e., there is one Available and there is a City with room for a Base).

Regards,
Oerjan

But the event says "Place a 26July Base and any Guerrilla in a City." Why would the "any" distinction be there if the executing Faction would have had to place an M26 Guerrilla?
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Ah, you're right - I misread that. Yes, in that case executing DR could place its own Guerrilla if it wanted to (including using 1.4.1 to take it from somewhere else on the board).

It is still forced to place an M26 Base, however - and that includes choosing a City with space for a Base.

/Oerjan
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P. Fowler
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Oerjan wrote:
Ah, you're right - I misread that. Yes, in that case executing DR could place its own Guerrilla if it wanted to (including using 1.4.1 to take it from somewhere else on the board).

It is still forced to place an M26 Base, however - and that includes choosing a City with space for a Base.

/Oerjan

I agree, but the point of the example was to show that if the DR take the event to place their own Guerrilla and there are no M26 Bases Available, M26 can't just go and remove a Base to force the DR to place it.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Still an iffy example for the Sierra Maestra case, though. Llano makes the Faction executing the Event text place all the pieces involved, no matter who those pieces belong to; so if DR executes the Event (including placing an M26 Base), then M26 isn't doing anything at all. If you're not doing anything, then it is immediately obvious that you're not "executing" anything.

Sierra Maestra Manifesto OTOH says that each Faction places its own pieces, thus taking active part in the implementation, even though three of them aren't executing the Event in the game meaning of the word. (That active participation was what made John believe that the other Factions were allowed to use 1.4.1.)

/Oerjan
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Timothy Phelps
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Oerjan wrote:
Sierra Maestra Manifesto OTOH says that each Faction places its own pieces...


Does this mean that a Faction cannot place another Faction's pieces with this event? In a game I am currently playing, the Syndicate chose to place a Government troop cube and a 26July Guerrilla. The card doesn't seem to stipulate that you can only place your own pieces.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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AFAIK the Event needs to say "any" or name a specific Faction to allow you to place another Faction's pieces. Llano uses both of these; Sierra Manifesto doesn't use either.

HOWEVER, offhand I can't find any rules reference or clarification that says this

/Oerjan
 
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Timothy Phelps
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Yeah, I searched diligently and couldn't find one either.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Oerjan wrote:
Turbine2k5 is right.


Thanks for clearing this up! Your tireless work on these forums is greatly appreciated.
 
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