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Dungeon Twister 2: Prison» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are objects revealed when the room is? rss

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Theron Seckington
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Like is says in the subject line. I've scoured the forums and the rest of the web and cannot find an answer. I am about to start Tutorial 4.

Are object tokens revealed (flipped face up) after the room they are in is revealed? As the rules do not specifically state they are, my understanding is the answer is "no."

However, then this means in later scenarios you might have characters moving through each other's spaces if their tokens are on the map face-down, right?
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CycyX
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Actually, from top of my mind, the rules do say that when a room is revealed, the tokens are revealed too (active player places all tokens except its own objects if I remember correctly).

Edit: just checked the rules. Room reavelation is explained for the first tutorial, and precisions are added just at the beginning of the fourth tutorial.
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Adam Frandsen
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You need to read the rules more carefully, because they explicitly detail the correct procedure. The person who revealed the room also reveals all characters and objects in that room. Then, the person who revealed the room decides where to place everything, except any objects of his own color, which are then placed by the opponent. All placements must be on unoccupied floor/rotation gear squares.
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Alfonso Velasco
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Of course they are
 
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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SlasherEpoch wrote:
Like is says in the subject line. I've scoured the forums and the rest of the web and cannot find an answer. I am about to start Tutorial 4.

Are object tokens revealed (flipped face up) after the room they are in is revealed? As the rules do not specifically state they are, my understanding is the answer is "no."

However, then this means in later scenarios you might have characters moving through each other's spaces if their tokens are on the map face-down, right?


Don't worry, you are not the first person to be confused by this!
The original edition DT rules were clearly written, but unfortunately there are multiple ambiguities in the DT 2 Prison rules, which makes me think that they did not "blind playtest" the Prison rules on people who weren't already familiar with the game.

Yes, the objects are revealed.

See here for more details and for help with other rules that are ambiguous in Prison but more clear in the original edition:

Compilation of clarifications for rules ambiguities in DT Prison (resource for those learning the game)
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
The original edition DT rules were clearly written, but unfortunately there are multiple ambiguities in the DT 2 Prison rules...

Ironically, I think the intention was to make the rules easier to absorb by taking a programmed instruction approach where you learn some of the rules and play a scenario, then learn a bit more and play another scenario, etc. (The first game I recall using this technique was Starship Troopers from Avalon Hill back in 1976.)

Different people learn differently, and I'm sure there are some who would learn more easily and efficiently with the direct approach taken in the original rules (myself included), and others who learn more easily via the DT2 approach.

Having two rule sets creates its own problem, embodied in the maxim "a man with one watch knows what time it is; a man with two is never quite sure".
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Theron Seckington
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
SlasherEpoch wrote:
Like is says in the subject line. I've scoured the forums and the rest of the web and cannot find an answer. I am about to start Tutorial 4.

Are object tokens revealed (flipped face up) after the room they are in is revealed? As the rules do not specifically state they are, my understanding is the answer is "no."

However, then this means in later scenarios you might have characters moving through each other's spaces if their tokens are on the map face-down, right?


Don't worry, you are not the first person to be confused by this!
The original edition DT rules were clearly written, but unfortunately there are multiple ambiguities in the DT 2 Prison rules, which makes me think that they did not "blind playtest" the Prison rules on people who weren't already familiar with the game.

Yes, the objects are revealed.

See here for more details and for help with other rules that are ambiguous in Prison but more clear in the original edition:

Compilation of clarifications for rules ambiguities in DT Prison (resource for those learning the game)


Thank you for managing to answer my question without insulting me, I appreciate that and the link.
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Adam Frandsen
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SlasherEpoch wrote:
Thank you for managing to answer my question without insulting me


Did the rest of us insult you?
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Ryan Thompson

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Laeidz87 wrote:
SlasherEpoch wrote:
Thank you for managing to answer my question without insulting me


Did the rest of us insult you?


Nope, only you. Too be fair it was less insulting and more condescending than anything, like you were talking to a lazy child.
 
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Kassanova wrote:
Laeidz87 wrote:
SlasherEpoch wrote:
Thank you for managing to answer my question without insulting me


Did the rest of us insult you?


Nope, only you. Too be fair it was less insulting and more condescending than anything, like you were talking to a lazy child.


The "Of course they are" response didn't contribute anything other than snark to the thread either, especially after two previous replies had already answered the question.

And it's not "of course" as written in DT Prison, which leaves room for some kind of memory mechanism keeping them face-down after room reveal and placement. The 1st ed. rules much more explicitly leave no room for doubt: "all tokens are placed face-up."
 
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Sphere wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
The original edition DT rules were clearly written, but unfortunately there are multiple ambiguities in the DT 2 Prison rules...

Ironically, I think the intention was to make the rules easier to absorb by taking a programmed instruction approach where you learn some of the rules and play a scenario, then learn a bit more and play another scenario, etc. (The first game I recall using this technique was Starship Troopers from Avalon Hill back in 1976.)

Different people learn differently, and I'm sure there are some who would learn more easily and efficiently with the direct approach taken in the original rules (myself included), and others who learn more easily via the DT2 approach.

Having two rule sets creates its own problem, embodied in the maxim "a man with one watch knows what time it is; a man with two is never quite sure".


Yeah I'm not sure which I prefer, tutorial or complete ruleset. I like the "ease you in" tutorials, but ideally I'd also like a companion complete ruleset. I do have some frustrations with Legends of Andor in that regard as well, which also has the tutorial approach.

Although in DT Prison it's not just tutorial vs traditional - in adapting 1st edition rules to the tutorial, they seemed to have left a few things out along the way, which unfortunately weren't caught. Not many (in most regards it's a clear ruleset), but enough to cause some ambiguities and confusion.
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Adam Frandsen
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Kassanova wrote:
Laeidz87 wrote:

Did the rest of us insult you?

Nope, only you. Too be fair it was less insulting and more condescending than anything, like you were talking to a lazy child.


I'm not sure what makes you qualified to answer for the OP. I asked Theron if we had insulted him. I didn't ask for anyone else's opinion regarding Theron's feelings.

If my reply seemed condescending to you, it wasn't intended that way. It was a straightforward response with no emotion behind it. One problem with pure text conversations is that different people will imagine different tones of voice and different connotations of words.

I'm mildly offended at the implication that I'm some kind of rude or condescending jerk, when in fact I was just trying to be helpful to a fellow gamer by answering his question clearly and concisely.

To the OP, Theron, enjoy Dungeon Twister—in my opinion, it's one of the most brilliantly and tightly designed games ever created. Just make sure you get all of the rules down, or it won't be the same game.
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