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Subject: Two players rss

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Mike Clarke
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The game's rated for three players only. Can it not be played with just two?
 
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Nova Cat
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There's no explicit reason you couldn't play with 2 players, but it's not really designed to support that. You'll find certain oddities will arise regarding player interaction.

But it could be worth a try, if you can't manage a third player.
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Angelus Seniores
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or use some AI mechanic to automate a 3rd player
 
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Mike Clarke
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Angelsenior wrote:
or use some AI mechanic to automate a 3rd player
Fair enough. But I'd need to know what that might be before I'd buy it.
 
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Mike Clarke
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Novacat wrote:
There's no explicit reason you couldn't play with 2 players, but it's not really designed to support that. You'll find certain oddities will arise regarding player interaction.


Such as?
 
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Chris J Davis
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mikecl wrote:
Novacat wrote:
There's no explicit reason you couldn't play with 2 players, but it's not really designed to support that. You'll find certain oddities will arise regarding player interaction.


Such as?


Trade deals, the way the map grows, potential runaway leader, things like that.
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Nova Cat
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The Klingons likely would be OP in a 2-player game, since there isn't the threat of an alliance to keep them in check.
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John Godwin
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So yeah, as everyone else has said, you can make it a 2 player game but it's really not meant to be. When the later talked about NPC expansions of the Borg and Dominion come out, this may be easier.

In a 3 player game the other two species help to balance out the third.

Klingons are offensive, Romulans are defensive, and Feds are resourceful.

The Klingons are tough but against combinned fleets wouldn't stand a fighting chance.

Romulans take a while to get going and could be taken out quickly if everyone worked together.

Federation are mainly focused on exploration and resources. Since they can't take pre-warp species it would be easy to gain a foothold in their space. They don't stand a chance against the combat strength of the Klingons and the first strike or Romulans.
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Mike Clarke
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So the game is essentially only balanced with three players. It's too bad in a way because that kind of limits its appeal. That said, I'm still interested. Gale Force 9's got a decent track record and this looks like the best board game rendition of the ST universe I've seen.
 
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Nova Cat
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The vast majority of games that go above 2 players don't play that well with only 2 players. Really good 2-player games generally need to be designed from the ground up to be specifically 2-player games.
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Mike Clarke
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Sure. But this game's not for four players either. That's what I meant about limiting its appeal. It's not always easy to find exactly three for a gamong session.

Also, many big box games like Scythe, Mage Knight, Robinson Crusoe, etc, etc ... do scale well.
 
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Chris J Davis
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mikecl wrote:
Sure. But this game's not for four players either. That's what I meant about limiting its appeal. It's not always easy to find exactly three for a gamong session.

Also, many big box games like Scythe, Mage Knight, Robinson Crusoe, etc, etc ... do scale well.


There are going to be expansions to add more players.
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Nova Cat
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mikecl wrote:
Sure. But this game's not for four players either. That's what I meant about limiting its appeal. It's not always easy to find exactly three for a gamong session.

The Cardassian and Ferengi expansions will be hot on the heels of the initial release. Then the game will be 3-5 players, which is pretty standard fare.
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John Godwin
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Novacat wrote:
mikecl wrote:
Sure. But this game's not for four players either. That's what I meant about limiting its appeal. It's not always easy to find exactly three for a gamong session.

The Cardassian and Ferengi expansions will be hot on the heels of the initial release. Then the game will be 3-5 players, which is pretty standard fare.


And they've said that, including the NPCs, they have planned about 9 expansions for next year.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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as above, you can play it with as many players as 3 + any extra faction packs you get later on, GF9 will release at least 4-5 extra factions by next year, starting with cardassians and ferengi this year.
 
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Scott Nixon
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What about 2 players each playing with 2 factions? I was thinking of having 2-player games with my wife, where she would play, say, the Klingons and Federation, and I would play the Romulans and Cardassians. Will that work?
 
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Angelus Seniores
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it wouldnt help for creating a more interactive game of negociations/deals and backstabbing since both your factions will work as a team instead of being possible rivals
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Marc Bennett
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my guess is the game system will play fine, there just may be some unexpected fallout. for example the trades aspect would be minimal to nonexistent in a 2 player game.

i thought i saw an interview with a designer who said you could play a 2 player game on a huge table to have a lot of build up before contact, so that seems to support my theory. not sure where i saw it though.
 
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Mark
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I would definitely like to hear about a 2 player variant. I just won't purchase it if I have to have three. GF9 you need to think about these things.
 
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Marc Bennett
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GilbertMark wrote:
I would definitely like to hear about a 2 player variant. I just won't purchase it if I have to have three. GF9 you need to think about these things.


i have played a two player game. it is playable. you dont have the full experience, you dont trade for example. there can also be a runaway leader problem. a single mistake gets exploited without a third player to provide caution to the aggressor. however you can play and it is fun. IMO
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Chris J Davis
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GilbertMark wrote:
GF9 you need to think about these things.


They really don't. Not all games need to accommodate all player counts.
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Angelus Seniores
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4x games are better with more players, this way you have a true feeling of having to find a good diplomatic balance between the players, shifting alliances as needed as each player's might evolves
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I plan on showing the game to a friend so he can have an opportunity to understand the mechanics before we play a real 3/4 player game with other people who have already played it.

I agree that the 3 faction dynamic is pretty important to keeping everyone in check. Does anyone have an opinion on which two factions are most balanced for a 2 player game?

I feel like a hyper aggressive Klingon player could really shut down a Federation player going 1v1, likewise I think the Romulan Cloaking devices present a real problem to the Klingons until they can counter it. So it seems like Federation vs. Romulan is the most even, even though the Federation has some very anti-Romulan tech they can research.

I've only played one full game so any more thoughts would be helpful.
 
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Marc Bennett
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GoodGuyJim wrote:
I plan on showing the game to a friend so he can have an opportunity to understand the mechanics before we play a real 3/4 player game with other people who have already played it.

I agree that the 3 faction dynamic is pretty important to keeping everyone in check. Does anyone have an opinion on which two factions are most balanced for a 2 player game?

I feel like a hyper aggressive Klingon player could really shut down a Federation player going 1v1, likewise I think the Romulan Cloaking devices present a real problem to the Klingons until they can counter it. So it seems like Federation vs. Romulan is the most even, even though the Federation has some very anti-Romulan tech they can research.

I've only played one full game so any more thoughts would be helpful.


our 2p game was romulan/ klingon. klingons won, although the romulans could have been more agressive and probably won. once the klingons got the tech for a free ship in every system with a culture node that pretty much ended it.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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a free ship with each culture node? i think its instead a free ship in every system with a starbase
 
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