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Subject: Misprinted 909 tile [1844] rss

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Oliver Burnett-Hall
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I played 1844 for the first time yesterday. It was good.

We came across one issue: it was impossible to upgrade Zürich from green to russet. I think this is because the russet Z tile issued in the new version is incorrectly printed.

The tile upgrade chart shows this sequence for Zürich:


This looks fine, but there's a potential problem when placing these tiles caused by the thick black border between the Zürich and Zürichsee hexes – if you place either of the green hexes (907 or 908) with track exits to Zug (south-west) and Rapperswil (east) then it will not be possible to upgrade to the russet tile (909) as it's not possible to maintain all existing track connections without creating a route into the lake (south-east).

Here's the board from our game when we discovered this issue:


It looks like this is caused by a change from the previous addition of this game. According to the 18xx tile database this is what the Z tiles look like:


Here the 909 tile has five exits rather than four, and so can always be placed.

Does anyone know if this is a deliberate change or a printing mistake?
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Pat Smith
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That's a good catch!

I suspect it's oversight, but in either case I'll probably break out a pen of some kind and adjust the 909 tile..

Thanks!
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Christopher M
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Will there be a replacement tile available from the publisher?
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Michael Milford
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I suggest the following rule to fit the given tiles.

On placing a yellow or green tile onto the Z (Zurich) hex at D19, it is not permitted to have track running from east to SW. That is, if a track leads to Rapperswil, then a track may not lead to Zug (or vice versa).

This ensures a legal upgrade to the brown Z tile 909 is possible.


Otherwise, we get your game play example, which can be fixed as follows:

An optional rule that requires another two 909 tile variants would be to make up an X version and a T version of tile 909.

Basically, tile 909 is a K tile (tracks as per green K tile 15).

To cover all possibilities, we also need a 909 X tile (with track as per green X tile 14), and a 909 Trident tile (with track as per green Trident tile 619).

 
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Mc Jarvis
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Deaddogdays wrote:
Will there be a replacement tile available from the publisher?


I've never seen Mayfair offer replacement pieces for misprints for any of their published games, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
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Dave Berry
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McJarvis wrote:
Deaddogdays wrote:
Will there be a replacement tile available from the publisher?


I've never seen Mayfair offer replacement pieces for misprints for any of their published games, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

1830 is the obvious example. Mayfair issued a mini-sheet of replacement tiles.
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JR
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McJarvis wrote:
Deaddogdays wrote:
Will there be a replacement tile available from the publisher?


I've never seen Mayfair offer replacement pieces for misprints for any of their published games, so I wouldn't hold your breath.


And that's incorrect.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/8194567#8194567
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Dave Berry
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Deaddogdays wrote:
Will there be a replacement tile available from the publisher?

+1

I suspect that someone thought to rationalise the number of spurs on each tile, so Yellow=2, Green=3, Russet=4, Grey=5. Which makes sense in the abstract but falls foul of this particular scenario. It's easy to make this sort of mistake; I've done it myself while working on my own 18xx design. A replacement tile would be welcome.
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Eric Tama
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Or you could, I don't know, draw a line with a sharpie from a circle to the edge of a tile that currently doesn't have track.
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JR
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Eric_Tama wrote:
Or you could, I don't know, draw a line with a sharpie from a circle to the edge of a tile that currently doesn't have track.


While I'm not one to jump on the publisher and cry bloody murder about a printing error like this, I'd also say that the above solution is not reasonable. Considering the price of these games it would be reasonable for a user to expect a corrected material to be provided at some point, or at the very least some sort of compensatory offering to offset the issue which will result in a depleted resale value in addition to the annoyance of having to correct it oneself.
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Pete Goch
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I'd settle for a pdf of the corrected tile that could be printed on to label paper. At least as a stop gap.
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john guthrie
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jrebelo wrote:
Eric_Tama wrote:
Or you could, I don't know, draw a line with a sharpie from a circle to the edge of a tile that currently doesn't have track.


While I'm not one to jump on the publisher and cry bloody murder about a printing error like this, I'd also say that the above solution is not reasonable. Considering the price of these games it would be reasonable for a user to expect a corrected material to be provided at some point, or at the very least some sort of compensatory offering to offset the issue which will result in a depleted resale value in addition to the annoyance of having to correct it oneself.


normally i'd agree, but this is one tiny black line that fixes a mistake in the tile. unless i've done a crap job of it, and since i will use a ruler (and i have a sharpie) i think it will look fine. and if i were to some day sell/trade the game, i doubt this would be the worst part of the game condition-wise.
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TonyKR
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A thin sliver of black plastic or electrical tape would work, too. Plus it should be relatively easy to remove later.
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JR
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The thing is, if Mayfair were to just say "sorry about that, just use a pen", then people who say things like this:

Quote:
I've never seen Mayfair offer replacement pieces for misprints for any of their published games, so I wouldn't hold your breath.


...would start to sound less like they are just biased against Mayfair and more like they are speaking based on some validity.

The instant the 1844/1854 reprint was announced as being linked to Lookout/Mayfair, negative commentary surfaced instantly, pointing to problems found in the 1830, and to a lesser extent 1853, reprints. A misprinted tile like this would be replaced by pretty much any 18XX publisher I can think of. To not provide replacements will mean that when the next 18XX reprint by Mayfair gets announced, the tradition of complaining about printing issues will resurface just as quickly and 1844/1854 will be fuel added to that fire. I highly doubt Mayfair wants to foster a reputation of printing errors without corrections being handled.

I'm also not saying that I would hold it against them if they did let this problem go with a simple apology, but I'm an 18XX enthusiast and would continue to buy their prints regardless. Many other users might be somewhat less forgiving if these issues appear to become expected.
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Dave Berry
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The first thing that I would like to see is confirmation from the publisher and/or designer about what they consider to be the correct fix. To me, restoring the original version of the 909 tile seems the best approach, but without an official ruling that fix is just a house rule.

If the change to the tile is the official recommendation, then I would like a corrected version of the tile to be made available in due course. I'm not making a huge fuss, I'm just saying expressing my preference. I agree with Justin that by showing good customer service, Mayfair would be boosting the support they receive in return from their customers.
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Hanno Girke
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daveberry wrote:
The first thing that I would like to see is confirmation from the publisher and/or designer about what they consider to be the correct fix.


I'm in contact with the designers to find out if this a actually a misprint - or if it was done by purpose.
As Helmut has double- and triple-checked the tilesheet, I'm pretty adamant that the change has been made on purpose to support specific ways to play the tile in green. But I can't say for sure. Therefore you get an official announcement once I get the answer from all those on the R&D team on this game.
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Brian Roundhill
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Hanno wrote:
daveberry wrote:
The first thing that I would like to see is confirmation from the publisher and/or designer about what they consider to be the correct fix.


I'm in contact with the designers to find out if this a actually a misprint - or if it was done by purpose.
As Helmut has double- and triple-checked the tilesheet, I'm pretty adamant that the change has been made on purpose to support specific ways to play the tile in green. But I can't say for sure. Therefore you get an official announcement once I get the answer from all those on the R&D team on this game.


Thank you. I cannot think of a better first step.
 
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Dave Berry
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Hanno wrote:
I'm in contact with the designers to find out if this a actually a misprint - or if it was done by purpose.

Thanks Hanno.

Quote:
As Helmut has double- and triple-checked the tilesheet, I'm pretty adamant that the change has been made on purpose to support specific ways to play the tile in green. But I can't say for sure. Therefore you get an official announcement once I get the answer from all those on the R&D team on this game.

Regardless of how the change to the tile came about, I find it hard to believe that the situation described in the original post was an intended outcome. It would seem very quirky to allow the placement of a green tile to block all future upgrades of that tile. So if the designers deliberately changed the tile, perhaps they didn't notice that the change could have this consequence?




 
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Pete Goch
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He's saying that he thinks the brown tile was changed deliberately and that the green tile may only be placed in a way that allows it to be upgraded to brown tile.

OK, so no. It's intended to allow a green lay of the Z tile that prevents the brown upgrade.
 
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Hanno Girke
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daveberry wrote:
Hanno wrote:
I'm in contact with the designers to find out if this a actually a misprint - or if it was done by purpose.

Thanks Hanno.

Quote:
As Helmut has double- and triple-checked the tilesheet, I'm pretty adamant that the change has been made on purpose to support specific ways to play the tile in green. But I can't say for sure. Therefore you get an official announcement once I get the answer from all those on the R&D team on this game.

Regardless of how the change to the tile came about, I find it hard to believe that the situation described in the original post was an intended outcome. It would seem very quirky to allow the placement of a green tile to block all future upgrades of that tile. So if the designers deliberately changed the tile, perhaps they didn't notice that the change could have this consequence?


So here's the more or less official statement. I tracked down several persons involved in the 1844 development (being myself on the 1854 team), and this is what I found out:

[1] The 909 tile was submitted to graphics as it is now. Therefore, it is not a misprint, but a changed tile.

[2] It seems that the intention of the change was to sanction certain ways to lay the Zurich tile - if a playe decides to have the Winterthur - Rapperswil- Zug exits, upgrading will be impossible. Some kind of trade-off, it seems. Again, YT is lacking the experience in 1844 to be able to tell if conneting those 3 cities is too strong, but I'm sure there's someone in the crowd who could evaluate that.

[3] As I read that some of you are unhappy with the new tile, we'll provide - at given time, as soon as Klemens has some time to breathe - a pdf of the tile as it was in the old game. Or use a sharpie for those couple of milimeters. We'll probably rename it to 909a.

[4] Helmut will include this special build in his FAQ.

Hope this helps.
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Pete Goch
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Well, here's my craptastic attempt at cobbling together a 909 tile with 5 exits.
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Dave Berry
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Hanno wrote:
So here's the more or less official statement. I tracked down several persons involved in the 1844 development (being myself on the 1854 team), and this is what I found out:
...
[2] It seems that the intention of the change was to sanction certain ways to lay the Zurich tile - if a player decides to have the Winterthur - Rapperswil- Zug exits, upgrading will be impossible. Some kind of trade-off, it seems.

Thank you for clarifying this. My guess was completely wrong, so it is very helpful to have the (near-) official statement.

Quote:
[3] As I read that some of you are unhappy with the new tile, we'll provide - at given time, as soon as Klemens has some time to breathe - a pdf of the tile as it was in the old game. Or use a sharpie for those couple of millimeters. We'll probably rename it to 909a.

For my part, I will play with the change, as it is what the designer intended.

Quote:
[4] Helmut will include this special build in his FAQ.

I think that would be helpful.

Quote:
Hope this helps.

Very much so! Thank you Hanno.
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Michael Milford
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Railhead Mike wrote:
I suggest the following rule to fit the given tiles.

On placing a yellow or green tile onto the Z (Zurich) hex at D19, it is not permitted to have track running from east to SW. That is, if a track leads to Rapperswil, then a track may not lead to Zug (or vice versa).

This ensures a legal upgrade to the brown Z tile 909 is possible.


Otherwise, we get your game play example, which can be fixed as follows:

An optional rule that requires another two 909 tile variants would be to make up an X version and a T version of tile 909.

Basically, tile 909 is a K tile (tracks as per green K tile 15).

To cover all possibilities, we also need a 909 X tile (with track as per green X tile 14), and a 909 Trident tile (with track as per green Trident tile 619).


This rule change will allow play with the existing new 909 tile, without the need to alter this tile.

If you want all the options, just make up a 909X and 909T tile to go with the 909. (And the 909 tile could be renamed 909K).
 
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