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Subject: Print and Play Typos and Proposed Changes rss

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Tyler Ryan
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Hey, so I posted a ridiculous amount of comments on the Print and Play update... And I figured it would be best to include it here for discussions. Mostly because some of the proposed "changes" I included aren't technically typos, though some are.

Reference Keys:
RED Represents typos or grammatical errors that must be changed.
BLUE Represents changes to a card that either provide clarification or make the card's text easier to read. These changes aren't 100% necessary.
Strike Through Words that are removed
Underline Name of the card with the error.

Hold Cards

"Do nothing this turn. A hold card may not be discarded for any reason."

Alchemist

Trip Mine
"Place 1 mine and 1 dud token on empty spaces within radius. On his turn, if any hero moves to or from the space with a token on his turn, reveal the token. If it's a mine, the hero is defeated."

Cluster Mine
"Place 1 mine and 2 dud tokens on empty spaces within radius. On his turn, if any hero moves to or from the space with a token on his turn, reveal the token. If it's a mine, the hero is defeated."

Mine Field
"Place 2 mines and 2 dud tokens on empty spaces within radius. On his turn, if any hero moves to or from the space with a token on his turn, reveal the token. If it's a mine, the hero is defeated."

Holy Death Grenade
"May only target an enemy hero that hasn't moved this turn. That hero discards a card."

Death Grenade
"May only target an enemy hero that hasn't moved this turn. That hero discards a card."

Crane Strike
"Ignores the effects of the defense cards of the target hero."

Viper Strike
"Target Heroes may not use defense cards to defend."

Tiger Strike
"Name a color slot. Adjacent enemyopponent discards a card of that color."

Dragon Strike
"Name two color slots. Adjacent enemyopponent discards all cards of thatthose colors."

Cobra Strike
"Target Heroes may only use attack cards to defend."

Barbarian

Master Skald Scald

One Man Army
"You count as a friendly minion for the purpose of minion combat."

Commander

DuellistDuelist

Strategize
"Within the radius, move up to 3three friendly minions within radius 1 space in any direction."
Comment: This was moved around because how it was worded, it could be interpreted that the radius for friendly minions was 1

Rapid Fire
"Must target exactly 2 two enemies within radius. May not be used on a single target."

Leadership
"Heroe in range gains 2two coins and may immediately purchase a level-up."

Drill
"Adjacent hero gains a coin and may immediatelyimmidiately purchase a level-up."

Control
"Within the radius, move up to 2two friendly minions within radius 1 space in any direction."

Reposition
"Within the radius, move 3one friendly minions within radius 1 space in any direction."

Hail of Bullets
"Must target either 2 or 3up to three enemies within radius. May not be used on a single target."

Envoy

Electrocute
"Target hero discards the card he played this turn his unresolved card without resolving it."

Electroblast
"Target hero and any hero adjacent heroes to the target, discard the cards they played this turn their unresolved cards without resolving them.

Ceremonial Blade
"Wasp's abilities are versatile and straightforward with the exception of Charged Boomerang Bumerang. That weapon requires proficiency.

Charged Boomerang Bumerang

Thunder Boomerang Bumerang

Outlaw

Backstab with a Ballista

Sniper

Overwatch
"Ongoing: Do not resolve minion combat in the within your current zone you are in."

Crossfire
"Ongoing: During minion combat, do not remove friendly minions during minion combat in the within your current or adjacent zones you are in, or adjacent ones."

Buckshot
"This The attack affects all heroes in range that are adjacent to the target."

Shotgun
"Choose one hero in range that is adjacent to the target. This The attack affects both heroes."

Suppress
"Ongoing: During minion combat, do not remove friendly minions during minion combat in the within your current zone you are in."

Steam Shroud
"Ongoing: Enemy heroes in the within your current zone you are in may not move in a straight line."

Steam Cloud
"Ongoing: Enemy heroes in the within your current zone you are in may not move or use ranged skills and attacks in a straight line."

Sorceress

Path of Flames
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma token there. Magma tokens are impassable."

Path of Ashes
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma token there. Magma tokens are impassable."

Path of Cinders
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma token there. Magma tokens are impassable."

Ignite
"Remove a friendly minion in range. All adjacent enemy heroes adjacent to that minion must discard a card."

Earthquake
"An opponent chooses one of his friendly units. All his remaining units in radius except the one chosen are affected."

Detonate
"Remove a friendly minion in range. All adjacent enemy heroes adjacent to that minion must discard a card."

Explode
"Remove a friendly minion in range. All adjacent enemy heroes adjacent to that minion must discard a card."

Tremors
"An opponent chooses one of his friendly units in radius. Only that unit is affected."

Spellsword

Raging Waters
"2 Two spaces directly behind the target are hit as well. (Will affect friendlies)"

Witch

Necromastery
"Revive a melee minion in an adjacent corresponding friendly empty spawn point."

Hex
"Target hero in range loses up to 3 coins."

Curse
"Target hero in range loses up to 1 coin."

Blazing Skull
"Defeat up to 2 two minions within radius."

Necromancy
"Revive a ranged minion in an adjacent corresponding friendly empty spawn point."

Littlefinger of Death
"Make sure to use your range advantage. Your defense is not high enough hight enugh for you to afford to take hits."

Burning Skull
"Defeat up to 2 two minions within radius. Gain half the usual amount of coins."

Wuk & Hanu

Enrage Engrage
"If you survive, you may play and resolve a card immediately immidiately after the attack, if you survive."

Anger
"If you survive, you may play and resolve a non-attack card immediately immidiately after the attack, if you survive."

Stampede
"Move 3 spaces in a straight line, and move any interfering units 1 space in any direction."
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Arty N.
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Great stuff Tyler! This is very much appreciated.
We'll take care of the red things.
Now let's go through some of the "blue" ones. I agree with your suggestions in most cases, except a few where I would like to discuss.


Heroes may not use defense cards to defend."


I want the "target" or "defender" to be there, since otherwise it technically could mean that all enemy heroes are affected.


Within the radius, move up to 2 friendly minions 1 space in any direction
Wouldn't it mean that the minions moved can't leave the radius with that move? (cuz they can).

"Target hero and any adjacent heroes, discard the cards they played this turn."
Is it clear in this case that adjacency is "from the target", instead of "from you".
(Same for Ignite, Detonate and Explode).

Target hero in range loses up to 3 coins.
Wouldn't it imply that he can choose to lose 1, 2, 3 or none?



Thanks a lot for your contribution!










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Achim Zien
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From the rulebook:

Place Heroes
Place each player’s Hero figure on any of the available respawn points in the corresponding Throne Zone. The order of placement is irrelevant.

It may be irrelevant because everybody will fast travel anyways (if I understand correctly), but still there should be a guideline to not leave players confused. Maybe: Place your heroes on any available respawn point of your team in clock-wise order from the game's owner.

Btw. will we get the full laid-out rulebook before it goes to print? I am not sure if it makes sense to plow through the draft rulebook to find problems.
 
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Arty N.
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PiHalbe wrote:
From the rulebook:
Place Heroes
Place each player’s Hero figure on any of the available respawn points in the corresponding Throne Zone. The order of placement is irrelevant.

It may be irrelevant because everybody will fast travel anyways (if I understand correctly), but still there should be a guideline to not leave players confused. Maybe: Place your heroes on any available respawn point of your team in clock-wise order from the game's owner.

Yep, on first turn everyone will fast travel, based on initiative, so the initial placement is unimportant. But you may be right.

PiHalbe wrote:

Btw. will we get the full laid-out rulebook before it goes to print? I am not sure if it makes sense to plow through the draft rulebook to find problems.

We'll try to squeeze it in, but the deadline when we have to send the rule book to LUDO is pretty soon. However, the text you see in the draft is what will be in the actual rulebook (minus clarifications and flavor text on the borders).

 
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Achim Zien
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If you're up to discussion, here are my thoughts.

nichik wrote:


Heroes may not use defense cards to defend."

I want the "target" or "defender" to be there, since otherwise it technically could mean that all enemy heroes are affected.


I think the version in the PNP files is unambiguous, here, and should be kept.


nichik wrote:

Within the radius, move up to 2 friendly minions 1 space in any direction
Wouldn't it mean that the minions moves can't leave the radius with that move? (cuz they can).


I think the version in the PNP files is fine. Would it be confusing to explicitly repeat the radius? "Move up to 2 friendly minions within radius 2 a single space in any direction." Or similar. I don't think there is anything in the game that would increase the radius, right?


nichik wrote:

"Target hero and any adjacent heroes, discard the cards they played this turn."
Is it clear in this case that adjacency is "from the target", instead of "from you".
(Same for Ignite, Detonate and Explode).


I tried a bunch of variants and think the one in the PNP files is to most concise, unambiguous version.

nichik wrote:

Target hero in range loses up to 3 coins.
Wouldn't it imply that he can choose to lose 1, 2, 3 or none?


Maybe: Target hero in range loses all his coins, maximum 3.

Or: Target hero in range loses 3 coins (or all coins if the target has less).

Alternatively, you could explicitly state that for card effects (not prerequisites like range!), there is a philosophy of "do as much as you can" (David Sirlin likes to do that). That is clutter-free and generalizes the rule.
 
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Achim Zien
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I may have overlooked it, but you never state that the game is played in rounds and after each round comes another round until some team wins. While it's commonly understood, I feel it should be explicitly in there.

Rulebook wrote:
Heavy Minion
[…]
Immune to all Attacks and effects, unless it’s
the last Minion of his faction remaining in a
lane.
[…]


Does this mean, that it also cannot be displaced by attack / movement skills? What about the Barbarian rushing through it? That feels like a grey area to me.


Rulebook wrote:

[b]Items[/]
[…]
After you obtain an item, it will increase the matching icons values of any card you play by one.
[…]


This sound very vague. Maybe: "After you obtain an item, its effect (increasing initiative, defence, attack or movement by one) is applied to all cards you play."

Btw. is their any item to increase area of effect or any other stat? Coin gain, etc.


PS: Amazingly short rulebook!
 
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Arty N.
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PiHalbe wrote:
I may have overlooked it, but you never state that the game is played in rounds and after each round comes another round until some team wins.

Hmmm. Might add it in the "Playing the game" section.

PiHalbe wrote:

Does this mean, that it also cannot be displaced by attack / movement skills? What about the Barbarian rushing through it? That feels like a grey area to me.

That's a good question. The minion itself can't be moved/displaced etc. It is immune to any effects.
However, Barbarian's charge does not affect the minion himself, so he will still be able to charge through.
But I see the ambiguity here. I`ll think about the wording.

PiHalbe wrote:

This sound very vague. Maybe: "After you obtain an item, its effect (increasing initiative, defence, attack or movement by one) is applied to all cards you play."

That's a good idea.

PiHalbe wrote:

Btw. is their any item to increase area of effect or any other stat? Coin gain, etc.

There are 6 "upgradable" stats(icons): Attack, Defense, Initiative, Movement, Range, Radius.

PiHalbe wrote:
PS: Amazingly short rulebook!

:)

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Sam ko
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WhoAskedU wrote:
Sorceress

Path of Flames
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma toke there. Magma tokens are impassable."

Path of Ashes
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma toke there. Magma tokens are impassable."

Path of Cinders
"Each time you are leaving leave a space, place a magma toke there. Magma tokens are impassable."
I think it should be "place a magma token there"
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Mark van der Upwich
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nichik wrote:

PiHalbe wrote:

Does this mean, that it also cannot be displaced by attack / movement skills? What about the Barbarian rushing through it? That feels like a grey area to me.

That's a good question. The minion itself can't be moved/displaced etc. It is immune to any effects.
However, Barbarian's charge does not affect the minion himself, so he will still be able to charge through.
But I see the ambiguity here. I`ll think about the wording.


Wait, really? That's odd.. And I don't remember Anyone playing it like that ... It is movement, and you can't move through minions?
 
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Arty N.
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MaeroEffendi wrote:
Wait, really? That's odd.. And I don't remember Anyone playing it like that ... It is movement, and you can't move through minions?


I`m referring to Bullrush/Charge.
"May move through minions" and "May move through units".
 
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Samko wrote:

I think it should be "place a magma token there"

Yup!
 
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Tyler Ryan
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nichik wrote:
Heroes may not use defense cards to defend."

I want the "target" or "defender" to be there, since otherwise it technically could mean that all enemy heroes are affected.


True, I forgot about "future" heroes who may or may not have cards that allow them to defend other heroes.

nichik wrote:
Within the radius, move up to 2 friendly minions 1 space in any direction
Wouldn't it mean that the minions moved can't leave the radius with that move? (cuz they can).


This could be resolved in one of two ways. If minions must move the amount specified, or can move up to the spaces specified. It can be worded as follows:

Move up to 2 friendly minions within radius up to 1 space in any direction

or

Move up to 2 friendly minions within radius exactly 1 space in any direction

nichik wrote:
"Target hero and any adjacent heroes, discard the cards they played this turn."
Is it clear in this case that adjacency is "from the target", instead of "from you".
(Same for Ignite, Detonate and Explode).


Maybe "Target hero and any adjacent heroes to them must discard the cards they played this turn..."

Now regarding Ignite, Detonate, and Explode... This could be clarified by making it one sentence:

"Remove a friendly minion in range and all adjacent enemy heroes to them must discard a card."

nichik wrote:
Target hero in range loses up to 3 coins.
Wouldn't it imply that he can choose to lose 1, 2, 3 or none?


True, this one was just semantics.

Samko wrote:
I think it should be "place a magma token there"


Doh! Updated the original post, since that was actually a typo on my part.

Regarding
Bullrush, maybe add this to clarify (though it does add more text:)

"Before the attack move 2 spaces in a straight line. May move through minions. This movement does not affect the minion."
 
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Achim Zien
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WhoAskedU wrote:

"Before the attack move 2 spaces in a straight line. May move through minions. This movement does not effect the minion."


Shouldn't it be "affect the minion"?
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Tyler Ryan
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PiHalbe wrote:
WhoAskedU wrote:

"Before the attack move 2 spaces in a straight line. May move through minions. This movement does not effect the minion."


Shouldn't it be "affect the minion"?


Bah! affect v. effect always hangs me up. Updated :p
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I haven't played the pnp game yet and was simply reading this thread a bit at random, so apologies if this is very obvious or answered elsewhere, but I had a question about:

WhoAskedU wrote:
Trip Mine
"Place 1 mine and 1 dud token on empty spaces within radius. On his turn, if any hero moves to or from the space with a token on his turn, reveal the token. If it's a mine, the hero is defeated."

Does this mean that when a hero is being moved onto the mine outside of his turn (because of an opponent ability), the mine won't trigger?
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Tyler Ryan
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Gaedr wrote:
I haven't played the pnp game yet and was simply reading this thread a bit at random, so apologies if this is very obvious or answered elsewhere, but I had a question about:

WhoAskedU wrote:
Trip Mine
"Place 1 mine and 1 dud token on empty spaces within radius. On his turn, if any hero moves to or from the space with a token on his turn, reveal the token. If it's a mine, the hero is defeated."

Does this mean that when a hero is being moved onto the mine outside of his turn (because of an opponent ability), the mine won't trigger?


Yes, that is the intention. So if someone force moves someone onto the token the hero has a choice. Either risk the bomb exploding, or stay still the entire round.
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Arty N.
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Gaedr wrote:

Does this mean that when a hero is being moved onto the mine outside of his turn (because of an opponent ability), the mine won't trigger?


Yes. As Tyler said, that's the intention. If it would auto-trigger if you are moved onto the mine, it becomes waaaay too deadly.
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Okay, thanks. I can imagine that would be something we'd wonder about while playing, but the wording is fine as it is, then.
 
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Loïc Kremer
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Shouldn't there be the "Radius"-symbol instead of the "Range"-symbol?
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Tyler Ryan
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hykos05 wrote:
Commander:
Skill: Pin down
Shouldn't there be the "Radius"-symbol instead of the "Range"-symbol?


Yea good catch!
 
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Arty N.
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hykos05 wrote:
Commander:
Skill: Pin down
Shouldn't there be the "Radius"-symbol instead of the "Range"-symbol?

Updated P&P with this fix included. Great job!
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Achim Zien
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In the rulebook, I am missing explicit rules for Wuk and Hanu. How do they play, how do they level?

How are the starting cards distributed among the two instances? Do they level at the same time, or alternate, or decide between themselves who levels?

There are 10 cards for leveling the both of them. Either only 7 can be used or they both level at the same time which means we run out of cards at level 6 (of 8).

It is not clear to me from the PNP files and should very explicitly be included in the game when shipped.


EDIT: Also, how are the heroes divided up into the factions? I can guess, but there is nothing explicit in the rulebook. There should be, even though it is probably evident from the card backs of the hero decks(?).
 
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PiHalbe wrote:
In the rulebook, I am missing explicit rules for Wuk and Hanu. How do they play, how do they level?

It's on the outsides of the page. Not in the shared file unfortunately as Googledocs only support A4 format. I`ll show it later, when we'll be closer to finishing the layout.

PiHalbe wrote:

How are the starting cards distributed among the two instances? Do they level at the same time, or alternate, or decide between themselves who levels?

They are treated as two completely separate characters.

PiHalbe wrote:

There are 10 cards for leveling the both of them. Either only 7 can be used or they both level at the same time which means we run out of cards at level 6 (of 8).

And yes, they have lower level cap. They have the same stats (ini, def etc) power-level at level 6 as the other chars at 8. They don't get an ultimate though. So they are better at mid/early game but are not as good in the late game.

PiHalbe wrote:

It is not clear to me from the PNP files and should very explicitly be included in the game when shipped.

As mentioned before - it is.

PiHalbe wrote:

EDIT: Also, how are the heroes divided up into the factions? I can guess, but there is nothing explicit in the rulebook. There should be, even though it is probably evident from the card backs of the hero decks(?).

From the gameplay view, they are not. You can mix and match them as you please. Thematically, there will be a nice image showing who is aligned with which faction if you want to 'roleplay' the 'proper' distribution.
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Achim Zien
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Thanks for these concise answers.

(I just want to make sure that nothing is missing from the rulebook.)
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Arty N.
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Updated rule-book with slight changes here and there. No game-play changes, just some clarifications, better wordings etc.
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