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Subject: Two Questions, both on Wilds Tiles rss

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Mike Gallo
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A friend brought this game over the other day. We tried for a play of it but it ultimately fell flat. I'm not sure if we were missing something, but I have two questions:

1) On your turn, it seems to say that you can place a tile in the wilds as a free action in addition to the normal put down/pick up of workers on other spaces. In the part that describes putting down of wilds tiles, it says to put a guy on one of the spaces. This lead us to believe that you will often be putting two workers down a turn and getting the benefits from each. Was this correct? Any quotes from the rulebook would be helpful.

2) The game seemed to end very quickly. With everyone putting down a wilds tile and picking one up the next turn they disappeared quickly and we reached the limit of tiles in the chronicle in only a few turns. Is this intentional? To play only about 4 rounds?

Thank you in advance!
 
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Luke Turner
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Necr0mancer wrote:

2) The game seemed to end very quickly. With everyone putting down a wilds tile and picking one up the next turn they disappeared quickly and we reached the limit of tiles in the chronicle in only a few turns. Is this intentional? To play only about 4 rounds?


First of all 4 rounds is way too short, so there's definitely something up there. A typical game should last roughly an hour or so (fast groups may clock in at just under an hour).

Necr0mancer wrote:
1) On your turn, it seems to say that you can place a tile in the wilds as a free action in addition to the normal put down/pick up of workers on other spaces. In the part that describes putting down of wilds tiles, it says to put a guy on one of the spaces. This lead us to believe that you will often be putting two workers down a turn and getting the benefits from each. Was this correct? Any quotes from the rulebook would be helpful.


This is probably one of the most common issues people get reading the English rulebook. The action of placing a tile is described as a free action, but it also consumes your regular action by placing a vassal (worker) on the tile in the process.

More specifically:
1. You find a free space in the wilds (or spend a weapon to clear an existing tile)
2. You place your tile and gain the wilds' space bonus (Free action).
3. You MUST place a vassal on one of the newly placed tile's spaces. (this is your main action).
4. Take the rewards for the space you placed your vassal on in step 3.


So this will eliminate people from placing a tile + worker, then immediately withdrawing their workers to kill the tile they just placed. Also, you should almost always play the long version of the game, unless you are experienced players and know you want a short game (honestly even then I'd opt for the long game as if you know what you are doing it will still be pretty quick).
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Ian Bonner
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1) This is the way we have been playing it. A mandatory action of placing a vassal and the optional free action of placing a tile in the wilds with a vassal on it.

2) Most folks I have showed this game too have complained about the length, saying it is too short. I enjoy it for the change of pace and the race to get points before the game ends but most find the sudden last round of actions to be off-puting, especially if they are out of tiles or have to recall workers on their last turn.
 
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Ian Bonner
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sakoguru wrote:


This is probably one of the most common issues people get reading the English rulebook. The action of placing a tile is described as a free action, but it also consumes your regular action by placing a vassal (worker) on the tile in the process.

More specifically:
1. You find a free space in the wilds (or spend a weapon to clear an existing tile)
2. You place your tile and gain the wilds' space bonus (Free action).
3. You MUST place a vassal on one of the newly placed tile's spaces. (this is your main action).
4. Take the rewards for the space you placed your vassal on in step 3.


So this will eliminate people from placing a tile + worker, then immediately withdrawing their workers to kill the tile they just placed. Also, you should almost always play the long version of the game, unless you are experienced players and know you want a short game (honestly even then I'd opt for the long game as if you know what you are doing it will still be pretty quick).


Wow I'm surprised to find I misunderstood the rules and that placing a tile does consume your main action. This reminds me of another problem we had last night. The player wanted to use a weapon token to clear a tile in the wilds that had only her own vassal on it and then use the cleared vassal to place on the incoming tile. Were we correct in assuming this is not permitted?
 
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John James
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The Bon wrote:
2) Most folks I have showed this game too have complained about the length, saying it is too short. I enjoy it for the change of pace and the race to get points before the game ends but most find the sudden last round of actions to be off-puting, especially if they are out of tiles or have to recall workers on their last turn.

The end game can come on in a rush, the idea is to get ahead and then shut it down while everyone cries about what they've yet to accomplish.
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Luke Turner
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The Bon wrote:

Wow I'm surprised to find I misunderstood the rules and that placing a tile does consume your main action. This reminds me of another problem we had last night. The player wanted to use a weapon token to clear a tile in the wilds that had only her own vassal on it and then use the cleared vassal to place on the incoming tile. Were we correct in assuming this is not permitted?


Actually I believe that that is totally okay, as the tile clearing with the weapon is the first step in the process and the placing a vassal is the last step (See page 10 in the rulebook).
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Mike Gallo
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sakoguru wrote:
This is probably one of the most common issues people get reading the English rulebook. The action of placing a tile is described as a free action, but it also consumes your regular action by placing a vassal (worker) on the tile in the process.


I have to ask; Considering that the rulebook says that you get to take one main action and can additionally take the free action of placing the tile in the wilds and that the action of placing the worker on the new tile is written as part of the free action, where in the rules does it support what you are saying? (More specifically, where in the rules does it say that it takes your main action?)
 
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Luke Turner
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Necr0mancer wrote:

I have to ask; Considering that the rulebook says that you get to take one main action and can additionally take the free action of placing the tile in the wilds and that the action of placing the worker on the new tile is written as part of the free action, where in the rules does it support what you are saying? (More specifically, where in the rules does it say that it takes your main action?)


Placing a vassal is always a main action (Leadership tiles from the expansion being the only exception).

If you want proof you may read from the Publishers/Designers directly:
Direct Answer
Another one for good measure

The rules also state that that particular free action must happen before your main action (since the last step is to use your main action of placing a vassal).
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Mike Gallo
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Thanks for all of your help. I understand that you shouldn't be able to place more then one worker a turn in the game, but I guess my issue is with the rulebook. Not only doesn't it state that, but the structure that it presents the "Place a tile in the Wilds" action states, by RAW, that you should be able to place multiple workers.

I really think that the idea that it takes your main action needs to be included explicitly in the rulebook, but barring that, I'm very appreciative that the designer has commented here to clarify it.

Thanks again!
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Luke Turner
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Necr0mancer wrote:
Thanks for all of your help. I understand that you shouldn't be able to place more then one worker a turn in the game, but I guess my issue is with the rulebook. Not only doesn't it state that, but the structure that it presents the "Place a tile in the Wilds" action states, by RAW, that you should be able to place multiple workers.

I really think that the idea that it takes your main action needs to be included explicitly in the rulebook, but barring that, I'm very appreciative that the designer has commented here to clarify it.

Thanks again!


I played a half dozen games the wrong way myself before I was corrected, and it comes up fairly often here on the forums; so I agree the English rulebook has an issue here.
 
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Steven Durst
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The rulebook does state that the placing of a tile in the wilds takes up your main action, page 6.

"Place a tile in the wilds: this Free Action may be resolved only immediately before placing a Vassal". (emphasis in the rulebook)

So if you combine this with the Main Action: Place a Vassal, you come to the right conclusion. It is not very well written but it is there.
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Lawrence Myers
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sakoguru wrote:
The Bon wrote:

The player wanted to use a weapon token to clear a tile in the wilds that had only her own vassal on it and then use the cleared vassal to place on the incoming tile. Were we correct in assuming this is not permitted?


Actually I believe that that is totally okay, as the tile clearing with the weapon is the first step in the process and the placing a vassal is the last step (See page 10 in the rulebook).

No it is not permitted, answered in the FAQ of the expansion, pg 13 of rules:
Simurgh_CallOfTheDragonlord_Rules wrote:
Q: If a player has no Vassal to place, can they still pay a Weapon to remove a tile from the Wilds?
A: In order to remove a tile from the Wilds, a player has to be able to place an Action Tile in its place, and to place a Vassal on the new Action Tile, before starting the action.
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