Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

The Walking Dead: No Sanctuary» Forums » General

Subject: Why I went from an EB to $1 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mr Suitcase
Canada
Burlington
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just re-posting this here from the KS comments to provide feedback to cryptozoic as to why I did what I did. (in case the KS comments scroll off)

FEEDBACK: Why I first pledged Early Backer 2 days ago, then reduced to $1.

I heard about this and was intrigued. I saw an EB open and jumped on it for $115. That price point was too high for me (I'll elaborate), but I figured I would give it enough research to see if it was of outstanding enough quality for a new game to justify.

When I looked into it, it sounded good, but I wasn't sure if shuffling trust and stress counters would be fun. So I thought I would back something more basic. Well... there's a basic pledge, base game only, but it has no miniatures. There's a pledge for the game with minis, but... it is 3 times the price, and you MUST get an expansion. I guess I would have chosen something in between? Base game plus minis for $60? I didn't want to go full bore with an expansion when I wasn't sure if I'd like the game.

It doesn't help in my case that I own 2 successful zombie games for my group - Z:BP and DOW. So a 3rd can fit, but it's got to be exceptional. And because I think this is going to fit in the range from "Decent" all the way to "Exceptional" - but I really don't know where it will lie - I think that a $115 pledge was too much. And the cheapo pledge doesn't offer the bling I have in my Z:BP. So the best option for me is to wait for retail and some reviews to achieve certainty over how good this game will actually be.

Other comments: the different pledge levels were confusing to me - there were 2 different $115 levels - and I wasn't sure where the Comic one was different (I'm guessing pick it up at a convention?). Also, it seems there are more crazy levels (400+) for retailers and super-fans, then there are lower level options. And it muddies the waters and makes it more confusing for me as a backer to determine what I'm getting/missing at the lower levels.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terence Lee
United States
Arcadia
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
At the rate it's going, this isn't going to fund.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Vinyard
United States
Las Cruces
NM
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I backed TWD:NS on day 1 as an EB.

But, it looks like it's not going to get any of the stretch goals, even if it funds, so it doesn't seem to have the value for me. Especially, since I have a number of other zombie games like a full sets (everything) of Zombicide, Zombicide: Black Plague, Last Night on Earth among others like Dead of Winter and Carnival Zombie.

Do I think Cryptozoic would have improved on the Ghostbusters minis? Absolutely. I think they would have brought them back to the level they did for The Doom That Came To Atlantic City.

Do I think it would have been a good game? Yes. But, without the stretch goals it would have felt incomplete.

I think the funding reflects that the market is both saturated for zombie miniature games as well as TWD games (because of Mantic's success of The Walking Dead: All Out War).

It seems Cryptozoic is just too late for this release to be economically viable. Cryptozoic seems well positioned to work with licensed IPs. Perhaps they might be more successful with something like Penny Dreadful.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the problem is pretty straight forward at this point. It looks like the retail version will have 8 characters in it. And, the characters being given to Kick-starters as stretch goals are mostly the items that will appear in a retail box which will probably list for $90 or so and be available for $70. The extra zombies and duplicate stuff doesn't matter to many folks. People feel they are getting taken advantage of. The only fix for this is to give backers who are willing to put up their money a year in advance the retail box plus something to say thank you. My 2 cents...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Schmitzer
Germany
Garching
Bavaria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A penny dreadful game - what a wonderful idea
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was an early bird backer from the very start, but I dropped my pledge a while back (before today's debacle).

I was reluctant to back in the first place, because I didn't want to drop $115 for an unproven game bundled with an expansion. I don't like buying expansions for a games I don't play often, and I had no way of knowing if I wanted that expansion for this game. Compounding this problem was the fact they were forcing me to take the Farm expansion, when if I had to have one, I would have chosen the Prison to get Carol.

Furthermore, right from the start they were bundling the pledge with a variant Daryl miniature that looked mostly like the one in the game, while Lori was an add-on purchase (and exclusive) for $15. It felt like, right from the start, they were trying to strong-arm me into spending more than I really wanted to.

I ended up going against my gut, assuming the campaign would churn out enough content to make it worthwhile; but very quickly it became apparent that wasn't going to happen. They started adding more add-ons, because a few clever people asked for more things to buy. Considering I was already spending more than I wanted to, that didn't really get me more interested in the project.

I really wanted them to open a new tier for the base game with miniatures and stretch goals, but without the expansions; but I would have held in there if I had started to see real value.

That value never materialised (for me). We kept being told the game was about the survivors, not the zombies, yet Crypto's first effort to improve value was to stick a load more (identical) zombies in the pledge (which are only useful for homebrewing rules to make scenarios easier or more difficult), and the first two stretch goals were even more zombies.

The final straw for me was discovering that all of the listed character stretch goals were actually going to go into the retail box, meaning there was absolutely zero incentive to back now, so I pulled my pledge shortly after the game funded (when Dale magically appeared).

I sincerely hope they turn the project around. The game looks great, and I want some decent miniatures of the characters from the show (not the comic - I don't like the comic). I have to see what tomorrow's update brings.

(Sorry, this was a really long post.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
The final straw for me was discovering that all of the listed character stretch goals were actually going to go into the retail box, meaning there was absolutely zero incentive to back now, so I pulled my pledge shortly after the game funded (when Dale magically appeared).


I haven't been following closely and wondered why the campaign dropped suddenly today. Was this information made known today or yesterday? (No mini's in the retail version?)

If the base game and expansion characters are all in the retail box, then, sure, wait for retail! Assuming AMC lets them keep the license, Cryptozoic has enough $$$ to put some sort of retail version of the game into the market. They certainly got some free advertisement through this KS!

And keep up the long posts! (:
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trent DePonte
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
This KS was a dumpster fire from the beginning and the obvious shills telling people how terrible they were for waiting for retail didn't help matters.

They are supposedly going to have some kind of announcement tomorrow, probably too little too late and just as tone deaf as the original campaign.

Then again its Cryptozoic so one can't expect too much.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I would imagine Cryptozoic has way to much invested in the process at this point to just walk away. In my opinion they will do something to get this product out even if they need to shamble across the finish line with it like zombies from the Walking Dead. They should have been more forthright with what is going to be in the retail box and exactly what it will sell for. Discovering the retail box will have 8 characters not 4 was very disappointing. If that isn't correct they need to clearly say so. However, that does appear to be the case. I am sure there probably other kick starters that have operated this way but fortuitely I have not experienced this before. I want to know what I would get if I wait for retail. And, I want to know I am either helping a true start-up get started or that I am getting something extra for lending my money. They appear to be angling at every turn to make sure something customers really want isn't given to them. Or angling to ensure customers still need to buy something more. Feels a little like collectible games where you are forced to buy stuff you don't want to get the items you do want. I am truly disappointed with this campaign - so I pulled my pledge. Dispite everyones disappointment (mine included), I still believe this game will be produced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sam and Max wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
The final straw for me was discovering that all of the listed character stretch goals were actually going to go into the retail box, meaning there was absolutely zero incentive to back now, so I pulled my pledge shortly after the game funded (when Dale magically appeared).


I haven't been following closely and wondered why the campaign dropped suddenly today. Was this information made known today or yesterday? (No mini's in the retail version?)



They always intended to release two version of the game at retail, one with miniatures and one without.

The information regarding the stretch goal characters was made apparent on 21 July, after the game had funded. At that point, they announced they were giving away Dale for free as part of funding, and they added his image to the "extras" part of the main page graphic. It was noticed that a very small number on the graphic stated the retail game + expansion would contain 49 miniatures, where previously it had said 48, but there was no other mention of Dale's appearance in the retail box.

Several people asked in comments, and I PM'd the company twice, and eventually they posted this in the comments section:

===
Comment from Cryptozoic:
Anything not marked at Kickstarter Exclusive will be in the retail game when unlocked.
The social goals are just for our kickstarter backers because you helped us unlock them!
===

As of now, Dale is still listed as an "extra" on the main page graphic, with no mention of him appearing at retail (and there were comments from backers early this morning calling Dale an "exclusive for backers that won't be available at retail" making it clear some people don't realise what Crypto is up to. As a result, I pulled my backing, and made a post here on BGG to clarify the situation.

It is not unusual for some stretch goals to beef up the retail release of the game, Soda Pop and CMoN have both done this, I believe; however, I don't think it is right to do it without being absolutely clear.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dekan Wheeler
msg tools
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just an Update. We have re structured the campaign. The No Sanctuary tier now gets you both expansions and a ton on minis. Look closer at the update.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/the-walking-dead-no...
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy Chan
United States
Irvine
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DekanCrypto wrote:
Just an Update. We have re structured the campaign. The No Sanctuary tier now gets you both expansions and a ton on minis. Look closer at the update.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/the-walking-dead-no...


great update and very good course correction... with plenty of time before the 48hr rush. well done! thumbsup
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.