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Robert Ligon
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
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Interesting situation last weekend in a game.

Simple Fight of Hero and single Zombie.

1) Fight Dice are Rolled
Hero: 3,1; Zed: 3.
2) Hero plays Event "Mr. Hyde" to increase his 3 to a 4.
3) Zombie plays Fight card "Undead Hate the Living" to force a re-roll of the modified roll of a 4.

The FAQ states that "A card may not be cancelled once it has caused dice to be rolled or re-rolled."

The Hero re-rolls a 3. The "Mr. Hyde" card WAS cancelled because it had not caused a roll or a re-roll.

The Hero loses the tie.

Did I adjudicate this properly?
 
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Paul Nojima
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I don't think this counts as cancelling a card... The Hero Card wasn't cancelled, rather it was a roll that had to be re-done. Hero rolled another 3, but could just have just as easily rolled a 6.
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Chuck Hurd
United States
New York
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I don't believe Mr. Hyde is cancelled or even out of play. He is still in effect.

Mr. Hyde:
"Add or subtract 1 to any Fight Dice roll."

Undead Hate The Living:
"Play this card to Hate a Hero, forcing them to Re-roll any number of their Fight Dice (Zombie's choice)."

There is nothing inherent about Hate that causes any cards to be cancelled so Mr. Hyde is still in effect. After the re-roll (or any number of re-rolls) he still adds 1 to any Fight Dice roll.

 
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Nick Smith
Netherlands
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I agree that the forced reroll does not count as canceling the card - it's simply forcing you to reroll a die.

However, if it were in my game (unless there's some official ruling), I would not carry over the effect of Mr. Hyde to the new roll. Based on the wording, in my opinion, it allows you to modify 1 fight dice roll, which you already did. The dice was then rerolled, and is therefore no longer the same fight dice roll.

So it does basically undo the card's effect, in a roundabout way. But it doesn't do so by canceling it, simply by neutralizing it.
 
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Robert Ligon
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Raleigh
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Thanks for the input.

The card was not cancelled, a careless choice of wording on my part.

I adjudicated that the benefit of the "Mr. Hyde" card was lost after the re-roll… did not carry over... after "[Adding] 1 to any Fight Dice roll."

Looking at this thread…

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1357290/card-play-order-and...

Jason Hill expands on the structure of a fight. It's not very clear whether the benefit of "Mr. Hyde" takes place sequentially in step #3 as Nick sees a "neutralization" or in step #5 as Chuck sees the ability to modify ANY Fight Dice roll. I am too new to the game to have an informed opinion.

The card was never cancelled and remains in play. Has the benefit been lost when the Fight is resolved?


Digging deeper, I found a BGG FAQ compiled by Colin Baillie that states…

Q: There are cards, e.g. Mr Hyde that add/subtract 1 (for example, with Mr Hyde) to a combat die. If so, how does this affect doubles for getting zombie kills? e.g. if the Zombie rolls a 4 and the hero rolls a 4 and a 5, and then the hero can play a card to add +1 to a die, will this count as a double 5 or are only ‘natural’ double rolls counted for kills?...

A: It does not need to be 'natural' doubles to wound a Zombie. Cards like Mr. Hyde are really good for getting that extra boost to give you the kill instead of just Fending Off. Rolls are only taken into account when you Resolve the Fight (after everyone is done playing cards and using abilities). Until then, the rolls/results may be altered around as much as the players want. (The only exception to this is cards that have an 'instant' effect such as Meat Cleaver).

I think it was Jason's response. So cards Adjusting Rolls must be played in step #3... like Mr. Hyde as a Fight card or Braaains. They are applied as you Resolve the Fight, step #5.

I think this means that the benefit of "Mr. Hyde" persists into the "Resolve the Fight" step #5 and the Hero should have fended off the Zombie.

More Google-fu yields from the Flying Frog rule clarifications and seemingly contradicting the previous clarification…

Adjusting Rolls
A die roll may NEVER be reduced to less than 1 (you may not have a 0 or negative roll). A die roll MAY, however, be increased to more than 6 (bringing it to 7 or higher). Also, when a card adds or subtracts 1 to a single Fight Dice roll, it changes one of the dice in particular. If that die is then Re-rolled, the bonus is lost.

That seems definitive.

 
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Davy Ashleydale
United States
Oakland
California
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Right, the dice don't "remember" how they got to the face that they are currently showing. So if I change a 3 to a 4 because of a card effect, and then later, the zombie player tells me to re-roll one of my dice, they can pick any of them, even the one that I changed from a 3 to a 4. If I re-roll it and it becomes a 3 again, then that's that. I have a 3 and a 1, and the zombie has a 3. Zombie wins.
 
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Scott M.
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Winter Springs
Florida
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1) Fight Dice are Rolled Hero: 3,1; Zed: 3.

2) Hero plays Event "Mr. Hyde" to increase his 3 to a 4.

2.1) DIE now Reflects a '4'. Irelevant of prior value the natural face of the die is a 4. THe function of the 'Mr. Hyde' card has been executed and concluded.

3) Zombie plays Fight card "Undead Hate the Living" to force a re-roll of the modified roll of a 4. The item crossed out is no where in the interpretation. The Natural face of the DIE is '4' period.

3.1) Proceeded as normal.

DICE have no history of a face as cards are played in LNOE. CARD plays, affects DIE/DICE next effect ect..

 
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Chuck Hurd
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New York
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religon wrote:
Adjusting Rolls
...Also, when a card adds or subtracts 1 to a single Fight Dice roll, it changes one of the dice in particular. If that die is then Re-rolled, the bonus is lost.

There is no denying that errata exists. IMO, it's an unnecessarily restrictive clarification and I'm curious who the actual author was.


 
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Robert Ligon
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
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@Chuck,

Here is a link…

http://www.flyingfrog.net/FFPWiki/index.php?title=LNOE_FAQ_%...

There is a wiki discussion page. Joel Hills maintains the page, but it reads more like Jason Hill.
 
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