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Dominion: Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Capital question rss

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Z
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So, my wife and I were playing with Empires, and Capital was in the mix. It kinda confused us. The wording is: +1 buy, when you discard this from play, take 6 Debt tokens, and then you may pay off Debt. We played it that any coins you had left from this turn could be used. Ex. You play a gold (3 coin) and a Capital (6 coin) for a total of 9 coin. You buy a gold for 6 coin leaving 3 unused. When you clean up, you get 6 debt but then use the three coin to pay off 3 debt, leaving you with 3 debt for the start of the next turn.

Did we do this right?

Z
 
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Anders Olofsson
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zombie13 wrote:
Did we do this right?


Yes, that is correct.
The left over coins pay of as much of the debt as possible so in your example you will be left with 3 debt to be payed of in a later turn.
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gazebo wrote:
zombie13 wrote:
Did we do this right?


Yes, that is correct.
The left over coins pay of as much of the debt as possible so in your example you will be left with 3 debt to be payed of in a later turn.

Well, the left-over coins *can* be used to pay off as much debt as you want. You're within your rights to choose to not pay off the debt (although the cases where you'd want to are rare).
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dagmar
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But what if in your example you bought a card of 7?

I think you have to use both your "banknotes" then to pay for the card. Since you get no change, you end up with a debt of 6.

Or (my husbands interpretation) you had 9 coins, used 7 and can pay of 2 of the debt and get 4 debt tokens.

What is the right interpretation?
 
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David desJardins
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What is a "banknote"? You play a Gold during your Buy phase, now you have 3 money. Then you play Capital, now you have 9 money. Then you buy Gold, now you have 3 money. Then you end your Buy phase and discard Capital from play, now you gain 6 debt so you have 3 money and 6 debt. Now you have a chance to pay off debt so you use 3 money to pay 3 debt and now you have 0 money and 3 debt. At the start of the net turn you have 3 debt.

The sequence is just the same with a cost 7 card. You play a Gold during your Buy phase, now you have 3 money. Then you play Capital, now you have 9 money. Then you buy Forge, now you have 2 money. Then you end your Buy phase and discard Capital from play, now you gain 6 debt so you have 2 money and 6 debt. Now you have a chance to pay off debt so you use 2 money to pay 2 debt and now you have 0 money and 4 debt. At the start of the net turn you have 4 debt.
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dagmar
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With "banknotes" I mean the cards. Do you pay the card from your hand (no change given) and can you then use the remainder of the moneycards from your hand to pay of your debt. Or do you first play all your money cards, then sum up the values, buy your card(s) subtract the cost(s) of the buys and then use the remainder to pay of your debt.

You stem to use the second line of interpretation (which would mean I cheated my husbandblush
 
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David desJardins
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sjonnie wrote:
With "banknotes" I mean the cards. Do you pay the card from your hand (no change given) and can you then use the remainder of the moneycards from your hand to pay of your debt. Or do you first play all your money cards, then sum up the values, buy your card(s) subtract the cost(s) of the buys and then use the remainder to pay of your debt.


The very first Dominion rulebook explains how to play Treasures and use the money you generate to buy cards.
 
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dagmar
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Yes, I know. I looked it up, but it didn't help me.

I get confused by the order of actions. When you discard the card (I guess in the cleaning up fase), then you get the loan. Everything is gnoe then. But after that you get to pay off (a part of) the debt.
 
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Donald X.
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sjonnie wrote:
Yes, I know. I looked it up, but it didn't help me.

I get confused by the order of actions. When you discard the card (I guess in the cleaning up fase), then you get the loan. Everything is gnoe then. But after that you get to pay off (a part of) the debt.

Yes. This is just specific to how Capital works. Capital says it gives you debt when you discard it from play, so you do; it says you get a chance to pay off debt then, so you do. Normally you pay off debt earlier in the turn, but Capital specifically makes itself an exception.

It does this in order to work the way I wanted. It had to let you spend the money before giving you debt, to work at all; it gives you an extra chance to pay off debt so that it's not as bad to not use the full $6.
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Andy Latto
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sjonnie wrote:
Yes, I know. I looked it up, but it didn't help me.

I get confused by the order of actions. When you discard the card (I guess in the cleaning up fase), then you get the loan. Everything is gnoe then. But after that you get to pay off (a part of) the debt.

Your cards are gone, but your coins are not. As your turn progresses in Dominion, you have to keep track of three numbers: Actions, Coins, and Buys. At the start of your turn, you have one Action, no Coins, and one Buy.

In the Action phase, you may play a card, reducing your actions by 1.

In the buy phase, you may buy a card or event, reducing your Buys by 1 and your Coins by the cost of the card.

In both cases, you may not make the play if it would reduce Actions, Coins, or Buys to below zero.

In addition, when following instructions on cards you play, they may modify any of these three numbers. Playing treasures typically increases your Coins, and that's all that the basic treasures (Copper, Silver, and Gold) do, but that's just what those particular treasures happen to do; definitionally, a treasure is just a card that says it's a treasure, and at the start of your Buy phase you can play as many of these as you want, and they have whatever effect they say that they have.

In the original set, you could play as though your Actions disappeared at the end of the Action phase, and unused Coins disappeared at the end of the Buy phase, but this is not technically correct, and it makes a difference with Empires in the mix. With Villa, it's important that you keep your Actions once you enter the Buy phase, since you may re-enter the Action phase and you'll want to have those actions. With Capital, it's important that you keep your Coins during the Cleanup phase, since you will acquire debt then, and may use those Coins to pay off debt you acquired in the cleanup phase.

If you think of paying for the cards you buy with Treasures, it will lead you astray. Some treasures give you Coins when you play them. Some Actions give you Coins when you play them. The number of Coins is just a number you keep track of, that doesn't stay attached to cards in any way, and it's the Coins you use to buy cards.


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dagmar
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Thanks!
 
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dagmar
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donaldx wrote:
sjonnie wrote:
Yes, I know. I looked it up, but it didn't help me.

I get confused by the order of actions. When you discard the card (I guess in the cleaning up fase), then you get the loan. Everything is gnoe then. But after that you get to pay off (a part of) the debt.

Yes. This is just specific to how Capital works. Capital says it gives you debt when you discard it from play, so you do; it says you get a chance to pay off debt then, so you do. Normally you pay off debt earlier in the turn, but Capital specifically makes itself an exception.

It does this in order to work the way I wanted. It had to let you spend the money before giving you debt, to work at all; it gives you an extra chance to pay off debt so that it's not as bad to not use the full $6.


Thanks. It's a bit strange to spend the money that you didn't after you cleaned up, but I will play it like that next time.

And thanks for creating this game. One of my favorites.
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