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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » General

Subject: Death Star under construction very fragile rss

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Olivier Ringot
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About the Death Star under construction, there is a small point that bothers me or perhaps, i missed something.

If I understood correctly, it can be destroyed in the same way as the Death Star (rebel card "Plans of Death star").

But it is also much more fragile.
First, if it is left alone with at least 1 rebel vessel, it is destroyed.
Second, it has only 4 black health points, which makes it particularly fragile against a raid of X-Wing.

Did she not have at least a protection shield (as in episode VI)?
 
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Paul Newsham
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The Death Star in Episode VI was fully armed and operational. Not so, the DSUC
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Aaron Tubb
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Fuquay Varina
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But yes, it also had a shield generator on the planet's surface to protect it. That is one thing from the movies that is a glaring omission from this game, IMO.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Aarontu wrote:
That is one thing from the movies that is a glaring omission from this game, IMO.

That, and of course the missing Ewoks!!!
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Aron
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Almecho wrote:
Aarontu wrote:
That is one thing from the movies that is a glaring omission from this game, IMO.

That, and of course the missing Ewoks!!!


Well, Ewoks are more or less used with THE incite Rebellion card. At least the General action but with picture of their fury treehuts.
 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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No, I want Ewok miniatures!!
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Aaron Tubb
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Arontje wrote:
Almecho wrote:
Aarontu wrote:
That is one thing from the movies that is a glaring omission from this game, IMO.

That, and of course the missing Ewoks!!!


Well, Ewoks are more or less used with THE incite Rebellion card. At least the General action but with picture of their fury treehuts.
Which card, ironically, cannot be played on Endor (can only be played on a subjugated populated world).
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Aron
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Aarontu wrote:
Arontje wrote:
Almecho wrote:
Aarontu wrote:
That is one thing from the movies that is a glaring omission from this game, IMO.

That, and of course the missing Ewoks!!!


Well, Ewoks are more or less used with THE incite Rebellion card. At least the General action but with picture of their fury treehuts.
Which card, ironically, cannot be played on Endor (can only be played on a subjugated populated world).


Haha, very true.
 
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Throknor
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If they tried it was probably removed for streamlining/fairness. But I have an idea to replicate:

1) When the DSUC is placed place a cube on deploy space 1. This will be its shield bunker.
2) During deployment if the DSUC wasn't destroyed place the cube on the planet in the system. It has 3 black health and 1 black attack (to represent troops inside).
3) The rebels must destroy the shield cube before they can attack the DSUC, with or without the instant-kill card. The fight in space will go as normal with the exception that a round can end with only the DSUC and rebel ships without forcing a retreat as long as there are rebel ground troups.
4) Unlike normal, if the ground troops are wiped out and there is just the DSUC and the rebel ships the rebels have to retreat if they can. If they cannot and the Death Star deploys they are instantly destroyed.
5) Once deployed the DS is also protected by the generator until it leaves the system. Logistically probably simplest to destroy it when it does.

Might need a little tweaking, but first pass I think this captures the feel overall. I'm just not sure it would be balanced since now the rebels need to bring ground troops for the strike. Also it's a free three health for the already unit-heavy empire; maybe instead of for free they need to replace at least three health worth of unit to put it on a deploy space. Also heroes give ground tactics, so while I want to throw a bonus in for them it is technically there already.

Not sure I'll get a chance to try this soon; if anyone does give a shout on how it goes.
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I'd go with the Death Star Construction card also deploying a shield generator in the system if you have a ground unit there. A little bit of effort to earn it and no complications about what if it turns out the system is the Rebel base. It'd be a normal structure (a few red HP, no attack dice) that protects one Death Star (including under construction) in the system from being destroyed (including by Death Star Plans).

Also, change the Rebel uprising card to attempt against a subjugated system or against a remote system that contains Imperial ground units. So that the Ewoks can actually have an uprising on Endor.
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Aaron Tubb
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Good ideas. I hope it gets added if they make an expansion. My own thoughts for how to implement it:

Imperial Structure: Remote Installation
No attack, 3 red health. Effect: This planet is considered a subjugated system for purposes of unit deployment and mission cards (but not objectives). It is still considered a remote system. A Death Star Under Construction in this system cannot be damaged.

Counting the planet as subjugated would allow "Incite Rebellion" to be played on it. It would also allow the Imps to deploy units there, making it useful even if it isn't protecting a Death Star.

It could be placed either when you start constructing a Death Star, or as an optional effect of "Construct Factory."
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Scott Lewis
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I like that idea, though I'd amend the end of it to be "cannot be damaged or destroyed." (as some could interpret Death Star Plans to not "damage" it since it destroys it outright).
 
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Throknor
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The problem with Red health is that the installation was destroyed by troops not speeders. There are only three turns at most to destroy the DSUC as it is; for the rebels to mobilize ships and troops to a place that is usually chosen for its remoteness reduces their chances even more. Making them first destroy a red installation that doesn't fight turns it into a roll-fest until they get the correct rolls.
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Wasn't it destroyed by explosives once the garrison was knocked out?

Structures are destroyed automatically by attackers once all the defending troops are gone.

Seems to line up pretty well.
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Olivier Ringot
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Well, thanks for answers.

Now, i have to recall that there are 2 objective cards named "Plans of the Death Star".
That's sounds strange for me because they are played exactly in the same manner.
This is a good simulation of what has happened at the end of episode IV but why should rebels do exactly the same thing to destroy the second DS?
It is the same modus operandi.
It is as if the empire would have learned nothing from the destruction of the first DS.
So, in the game, as rebellion, you have the possibility to live twice the end of episode IV but never the end of episode VI. That's a bit pity.

As a small variant, you could for example say that, until there is at least 1 empire ground unit in the system where the DSUC is, the DSUC is completely invulnerable (even if left alone) but once the last empire ground unit destroyed, the game goes on with the current rules*.

This would be a simple simulation of the shield generator.

Now, i have no idea of such a rule on the balance of the game.
Perhaps is it a bad idea.


* So, DSUC is removed if left alone or if it takes 4 black hits or by the use of the objective rebel card.
 
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Scott Lewis
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ro_minet wrote:
Well, thanks for answers.

Now, i have to recall that there are 2 objective cards named "Plans of the Death Star".
That's sounds strange for me because they are played exactly in the same manner.
This is a good simulation of what has happened at the end of episode IV but why should rebels do exactly the same thing to destroy the second DS?
It is the same modus operandi.
It is as if the empire would have learned nothing from the destruction of the first DS.
So, in the game, as rebellion, you have the possibility to live twice the end of episode IV but never the end of episode VI. That's a bit pity

In the movies, they get the plans twice. In RotJ, they show a schematic of the new Death Star and how they plan to destroy it, and without the plans, it would have been much harder.

The two Death Stars had different plans.
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Yan P.
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ro_minet wrote:
Well, thanks for answers.

Now, i have to recall that there are 2 objective cards named "Plans of the Death Star".
That's sounds strange for me because they are played exactly in the same manner.
This is a good simulation of what has happened at the end of episode IV but why should rebels do exactly the same thing to destroy the second DS?
It is the same modus operandi.
It is as if the empire would have learned nothing from the destruction of the first DS.
So, in the game, as rebellion, you have the possibility to live twice the end of episode IV but never the end of episode VI. That's a bit pity.

As a small variant, you could for example say that, until there is at least 1 empire ground unit in the system where the DSUC is, the DSUC is completely invulnerable (even if left alone) but once the last empire ground unit destroyed, the game goes on with the current rules*.

This would be a simple simulation of the shield generator.

Now, i have no idea of such a rule on the balance of the game.
Perhaps is it a bad idea.


* So, DSUC is removed if left alone or if it takes 4 black hits or by the use of the objective rebel card.


You may not get the first death star plans - so it only makes sense that the second one is identical to the first. There's also two death stars, which makes it make sense that there are two set of plans.
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Tim Garrett
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A couple things to bear in mind:

1. In the polls that we ran of people's first games, only two out of 135 respondees reported seeing two Death Stars destroyed. This broadly suggests that the second Death Star Plans card exists not so much to destroy a second Death Star, but to allow the Rebels a second chance to destroy the Death Star if the Empire successfully retrieves the first plans, or if the Rebels use infiltration to shift the first Plans card to the bottom of their deck.

2. From a thematic point of view, the Death Star Plans don't need to represent the ventilation-shaft weakness we all know and love from Episode IV. It could just as easily represent defecting Imperials onboard the DS willing to shut down its shields at a critical moment, or bribing the engineers responsible for its upkeep to leave behind a significant weakness. Maybe it represents rebel operatives smuggling a huge shipment of explosives to an exposed section of the battle station so that a few lucky strike craft shots can trigger an explosion that knocks out the station's life support. Just because the cards are functionally identical does not mean that they represent exact same thing thematically.
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Simon C
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ro_minet wrote:
About the Death Star under construction, there is a small point that bothers me or perhaps, i missed something.

If I understood correctly, it can be destroyed in the same way as the Death Star (rebel card "Plans of Death star").

But it is also much more fragile.
First, if it is left alone with at least 1 rebel vessel, it is destroyed.
Second, it has only 4 black health points, which makes it particularly fragile against a raid of X-Wing.

Did she not have at least a protection shield (as in episode VI)?


I played my first game of Rebellion at the weekend - 4 players - and the DSUC appeared one turn with the Imperial General's activation. The Rebel General got an activation, followed by me as the Rebel Admiral, then the Imperial Admiral used his activation to play Double Our Efforts and advance the Death Star from three to two - followed by the Imperial General play some card which automatically deployed something on space 2 of the deployment track.

The DSUC was on the board for the entirety of two Rebel activations, with characters already assigned. "Very fragile" was not a term that sprang to mind in that situation!
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Mark Chiddicks
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The DSUC is one of the most disappointing elements of the game - its unshielded and there's no way for it to be 'fully armed and operational'. They seem to have forgotten to make it anything like the one in the film.

Shield: When placed on the board te DSUC automatically gets one stormtrooper unit on the surface to protect the shield

DSUC cannot be destroyed unless the rebels have control of the surface of the planet - land forces and win ground battle.

Balance this by giving the DSUC no hit points so its killed by any hit of either colour in any space battle phase where its unshielded

Fully Armed and Operational: A powercard for the Emperor. He must be in the leader pool to use. Move to DSUC system, deploy the Death Star.



 
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