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Subject: Is SeaFall designed to be enjoyable on a 2nd play through? rss

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Ray Uffrahst
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My only experience with the Legacy format is Pandemic, and while I am really enjoying it (we are in November) I don't think it would be much fun if I played again, because much of the enjoyment came from the unfolding but heavily-scripted story.

Now with SeaFall, it looks like I may have the opportunity to play in two different campaigns, but I am wondering if I should yield my chair to someone else.

It's not clear to me from the available info if there is a similar scripted story in SeaFall or if it's as open-ended as I would expect a 4x to be.

Any insight appreciated.
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Steven Blackburn
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As someone who has played pandemic legacy with two different groups, I have enjoyed both playthroughs in different ways, first through the story and my reaction to it, and in the second playthrough my compatriots' reaction.
I could see me playing seafall multiple times even if the overall story is the same.
 
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In service to the Imperium of Man
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I think that I would not want to play a game of Seafall with another player who had completed the campaign unless everyone at the table had done so. The knowledge of what's in the Captain's Booke seems like way too much of and advantage.
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Andrew Pillow
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Risk Legacy was playable multiple times as the competitive nature of the game changed up the way the game is played. I assume Seafall will be similar, and the milestones might even solve certain problems with the unlocks (if you knew a certain unlock will benefit you someone else may grab it for the glory. And vice versa something might put you back this game but 3 glory in the grand scheme is more important than perfectly timing an unlock)
 
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Clinton Rice
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It seems premature to ask if it will be worth playing a second campaign before any of us, have started our first, but I would venture to say it's good for at least one replay due to the "Choose Your Own Adventure" mechanic with many of the entries in the Captains's Booke.

You might be presented with a choice exploring an island to send out more men or wait until dawn, and perhaps you recall that one of those choices led to a one-time infusion of gold, but curiosity will probably gnaw at you. What happens if you do the other thing?
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Todd France
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
I think that I would not want to play a game of Seafall with another player who had completed the campaign unless everyone at the table had done so. The knowledge of what's in the Captain's Booke seems like way too much of and advantage.

That is at least one very specific issue that could probably be addressed with some ability to re-shuffle the numbers. Make a spreadsheet of all the numbers on the map, and re-shuffle all of the entries to re-map to another number of the same type (shuffle all the Anchor entries together, etc.).

Then you'd still have the concern that someone who accesses the index to look up the "real" entry number could easily find an entry they're looking for and do a reverse lookup for the number. Ideally, you could hide that index inside an app, which would only spit out a reference entry when a primary entry number was entered. Go one step further, and just have the app keep track of all the used entries, and randomize for an unused entry only when a number is entered, so no one can fish for the log entry they're looking for.
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Ray Uffrahst
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KoalaXav wrote:
It seems premature to ask if it will be worth playing a second campaign before any of us, have started our first, but I would venture to say it's good for at least one replay due to the "Choose Your Own Adventure" mechanic with many of the entries in the Captains's Booke.

You might be presented with a choice exploring an island to send out more men or wait until dawn, and perhaps you recall that one of those choices led to a one-time infusion of gold, but curiosity will probably gnaw at you. What happens if you do the other thing?


It would only be premature if I were taking a poll.

This is a question of design intent and can be answered by the designers today.
 
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Bryan Yeager
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You DID say that any insight would be appreciated though.

I think that only being able to see half the captain's booke in one playthrough makes a second playthrough very attractive to me.
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Ray Uffrahst
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crimsynseraph wrote:
You DID say that any insight would be appreciated though.


Certainly you understand the difference between insight and opinion?
 
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Becq Starforged
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pseudotheist wrote:
ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
I think that I would not want to play a game of Seafall with another player who had completed the campaign unless everyone at the table had done so. The knowledge of what's in the Captain's Booke seems like way too much of and advantage.

That is at least one very specific issue that could probably be addressed with some ability to re-shuffle the numbers. Make a spreadsheet of all the numbers on the map, and re-shuffle all of the entries to re-map to another number of the same type (shuffle all the Anchor entries together, etc.).

Then you'd still have the concern that someone who accesses the index to look up the "real" entry number could easily find an entry they're looking for and do a reverse lookup for the number. Ideally, you could hide that index inside an app, which would only spit out a reference entry when a primary entry number was entered. Go one step further, and just have the app keep track of all the used entries, and randomize for an unused entry only when a number is entered, so no one can fish for the log entry they're looking for.

A simple way to accomplish this without coding an app:

1) Make a list of all of the entry numbers for each symbol type on the explorer's map. (So a list for the sun entries, a list for the fire entries, etc.)
2) Roll a die that has at least as many sides as the size of the list you are choosing from. Note that the "fire" list is particularly long (22), and will require a d30.
3) Go to that entry and proceed as normal. (Reroll if the entry has already been used this game, or if you rolled past the end of the list.)

You'll still have some awareness about what the entries contain, but you have no control over the entry chosen.
 
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Keith Pishnery
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rayuffrahst wrote:
crimsynseraph wrote:
You DID say that any insight would be appreciated though.


Certainly you understand the difference between insight and opinion?


To be fair, you didn't make it clear you only wanted insight from the designers. This is a community forum and the implication is that anyone can give their thoughts on this.

Back to the matter at hand, most podcasts/articles I seen that feature the designer/developer and that mention the "story" of SeaFall indicate that there is a main storyline that you move through but the beats of each story may not happen in quite the same way or same order. Without them revealing examples from the Captain's Booke/Locked Chests, that might be the best you can hope for.
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JR Honeycutt
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I'm really interested to know how you feel after playing through it once. I can't answer this question for you - I think it would get too close to spoilers to do it - but I'm happy to talk about it privately with anybody who finishes the campaign.
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Becq Starforged
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jayahre wrote:
I'm really interested to know how you feel after playing through it once.

Me too!

As to the original OP, I can't really answer your question until I play it. However, here are some thoughts:

SeaFall has two key aspects (broadly speaking) that factor into replayability. It has a exploration/discovery/mystery(?) aspect, as espoused in the Captain's Booke and the sealed boxes. I expect that first time players will be constantly wondering what major twist will come next? I suspect that much of that aura of mystery will be stripped away. You'll know to expect that the flying saucer will be unlocked when the fourth box is opened. When the fifth box is opened, and God appears to give a reward to the most peaceful faction (ie, most enmity stickers remaining on the sheet), you won't be surprised. And when Rob Daviau shows up in person to light your board on fire when the nuclear bomb goes off (from the sixth box), you'll have his favorite drink already made. So I think there will be some suspense missing from the second time through.

But you'll still have what looks like a pretty decent strategy game (the second aspect), even so. You may remember what types of encounters will occur, but assuming you do some randomization, you won't be able to choose your outcome. So will you hammer the fire exploration sites in the hopes of nabbing that Hackmaster +12? Or will you go for that milestone requiring that you raid three difficulty 6 sites, thus summoning Lucifer to grant you the permanent +1 to your leader's Fortune stat, assuming you sacrifice (rip up) your favorite advisor, Bob the Traveller? Or perhaps you plan to upgrade your ship stats to prepare for ship raiding later in the game, so that your leader, Lord Westley, can become the Dread Pirate Roberts and pillage the seas?

Please note that it's possible that one or two of the speculations above might not actually be in the game. Bottom line: I think the game will become a lot more centered on strategy, but it may well still have potential. Ask me again in a few months...
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Clinton Rice
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Wow, Becq. I hope the game has more flair and flavor than that. Your prediction sounds positively mundane!

And for the OP, I didn't mean that it was premature to be able to be answered. I meant that it's premature to need an answer. Since the game is still several weeks off, and you would likely need weeks--if not months--to play through it before the answer is meaningful. It's like planning a second date with a girl when you haven't even asked her out on the first date.

By the time you are halfway into the game, you will probably know for yourself how worthy of replay you feel it is.
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Becq Starforged
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I think he was considering playing in two games concurrently, with two different groups.

And I apologize for the mundane ideas. I was trying to avoid likely events (well, except for the Rob Daviau one, which I think will be in the game)...
 
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Ben Martell
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"Bob the Traveller" makes his return.
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Clinton Rice
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Becq wrote:
I think he was considering playing in two games concurrently, with two different groups.


That would make more sense. If that's the case, I withdraw my statement.

Quote:
And I apologize for the mundane ideas. I was trying to avoid likely events (well, except for the Rob Daviau one, which I think will be in the game)...


Well, of course. I think we are all expecting that. I'm also expecting one of the chests to contain a doubloon that places a voodoo curse on the first player to touch it. And I'm kidding about your ideas being mundane, you ninny. They're a riot.
 
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Becq Starforged
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benmartell wrote:
"Bob the Traveller" makes his return.

Hey, Bob the Traveller is the best advisor in the game. Factions fight endless wars over him...
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Chris
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At the moment, it's by no means clear whether it's been designed to be enjoyable on a first playthrough, let alone a second.
 
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AJ Harris
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Triboluminous wrote:
At the moment, it's by no means clear whether it's been designed to be enjoyable on a first playthrough, let alone a second.


ZING!
 
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Edward Haag
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Becq wrote:
A simple way to accomplish this without coding an app:

1) Make a list of all of the entry numbers for each symbol type on the explorer's map. (So a list for the sun entries, a list for the fire entries, etc.)
2) Roll a die that has at least as many sides as the size of the list you are choosing from. Note that the "fire" list is particularly long (22), and will require a d30.
3) Go to that entry and proceed as normal. (Reroll if the entry has already been used this game, or if you rolled past the end of the list.)

You'll still have some awareness about what the entries contain, but you have no control over the entry chosen.

Even easier method: write down all the numbers on the map on slips of paper. Put all the sun numbers into one bag, all the fire numbers into a second bag, Etc.

Then just draw a slip from the appropriate bag when needed. Has the advantage that as you draw numbers out, you're automatically removing those numbers from future draws, and you don't need to muck about with having to translate die rolls to Booke entries.
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