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Subject: Faith Joseph Ekakitie's encounter with the police rss

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Shawn Fox
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https://www.facebook.com/notes/faith-joseph-ekakitie/pokemon...

I'll just quote his entire facebook post here:

Today was the first time that I’ve ever truly feared for my life, and I have the media to thank for that.

Today I was surrounded and searched by approximately five Iowa City Police Officers. My pockets were checked, my backpack was opened up and searched carefully, and I was asked to lift up my shirt while they searched my waistband. Not once did they identify themselves to me as Iowa City Police officers, but with four gun barrels staring me in the face, I wouldn’t dare question the authority of the men and woman in front of me. This is what happened from my point of view.

From the police officers point of view, all they knew was that a bank had just been robbed less than ten minutes ago. The suspect was a large black male, wearing all black, with something on top of his head and the suspect is armed. As they drive past an Iowa City park that was less than 3 minutes away from the bank that was just robbed, they notice a large black man, dressed in all black, with black goggles on his head. They quickly move to action and identify themselves as the Iowa City police and ask me to turn around and place my hands up. I do not comply, they ask again, and again no response from me. So they all draw their guns and begin to slowly approach the suspect.

In this situation, what the media would fail to let people know is that the suspect had his headphones in the entire time the Police Officers approached him initially. The suspect had actually just pulled up to the park because he was playing a newly popular Game called Pokémon Go. The suspect didn’t realize that there were four cops behind him because his music was blaring in his ears. The suspect had reached into his pockets, for something which was his phone, but for all the cops could have known, he was reaching for a gun. The suspect could very well become another statistic on this day. I am not one to usually rant on Facebook or anywhere else, but with all of the crazy things that have been happening in our world these past couple of weeks it is hard to stay silent. I am thankful to be alive, and I do now realize, that it very well could have been me, a friend of mine, my brother, your cousin, your nephew etc.

Misunderstandings happen all the time and just like that things can go south very quickly. It is extremely sad that our society has brainwashed us all to the point where we can’t feel safe being approached by the police officers in our respective communities. Not all police officers are out to get you, but at the same time, not all people who fit a criminal profile are criminals.

So with that, I would like the thank the Iowa City Police department for handling a sensitive situation very professionally. I would also urge people to be more aware of their surroundings because clearly I wasn’t. Lastly, I would urge us all to at least to attempt to unlearn some of the prejudices that we have learned about each other and now plague our minds and our society. I am convinced that in the same way that we learned these prejudices, we can also unlearn them.
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Shawn Fox
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Here is a video from body cameras of the encounter.

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jeremy cobert
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Wait, A black man can have an encounter with the police where he does not get shot ? Someone alert the Democrat party, we need to kill this story pronto !
 
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It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm. Contrast with Tamir Rice's case where a 12 yr old is dead within what 2.8 seconds of the encounter?

This videos shows how police should behave. These are the good ones. We ned more.
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Shawn Fox
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Shadrach wrote:
It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm. Contrwct with Tamir Rice's case where a 12 yr old is dead within what 2.8 seconds of the encounter?

This videos shows how police should behave. These are the good ones. We ned more.

The thing is, that is exactly how most police do behave. Groups like BLM want us to believe that all white cops are racist, but it just isn't true.
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Josh
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sfox wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm. Contrwct with Tamir Rice's case where a 12 yr old is dead within what 2.8 seconds of the encounter?

This videos shows how police should behave. These are the good ones. We ned more.

The thing is, that is exactly how most police do behave. Groups like BLM want us to believe that all white cops are racist, but it just isn't true.


It's odd how filters work. What I get from them is that too many(read:Any) police respond disproportionately to black people, it results in fatalities, and until recently is was widely under reported in the news as anything other than an 'and also' line.

As evidenced in Dallas, BLM actually works with police departments in some areas. BLM is not a centralized homogeneous unit, so some might be less cooperative, but the overall message is 'fix the problem.' That the root of the problem can be racism at times, both intended and especially unintended, and that stonewalling turns a bad individual into a bad unit in the eyes of victims are elements of the equation, but not the point.
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That was really awesome shawn. I'm glad you shared it. Watching it inspired feelings of hope and trust.

The officers were professional, polite, (please, thank you, didn't go into screaming mode, etc.) and deescalated conflict.

This is exactly why I want every officer to have cams (front and back).

I assume we also have cams from every other officer there too?

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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Shadrach wrote:
It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm.

Well... I agree with that, but:

Shadrach wrote:
This videos shows how police should behave.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Am I the only one who has a problem with the police stopping a citizen and searching him in this case?

I know the 4th amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches, but is this a reasonable search? I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't seem so to me; if all it takes is (for example) an anonymous tip as vague as "large black male, wearing all black, with something on top of his head," the 4th amendment doesn't protect us at all; an officer who wants to search you can manufacture that easily.
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kuhrusty wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm.

Well... I agree with that, but:

Shadrach wrote:
This videos shows how police should behave.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Am I the only one who has a problem with the police stopping a citizen and searching him in this case?

I know the 4th amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches, but is this a reasonable search? I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't seem so to me; if all it takes is (for example) an anonymous tip as vague as "large black male, wearing all black, with something on top of his head," the 4th amendment doesn't protect us at all; an officer who wants to search you can manufacture that easily.
He matched the description of the perp, so yes I think it was reasonable.

As to BLM, it does not think all cops are racist, it does how3ver sometimes assume that all blacks are innocent. It overreacts, but as others have said it also tries to work with police. Maybe then the issue is not BLM but how police react to any one who questions their authority (like the shop that "refused" to serve them).
 
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Shadrach wrote:
sfox wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
It's awesome that even with an active perp in the vicinity and a matching description that these officers approached calmly and remained calm. Contrwct with Tamir Rice's case where a 12 yr old is dead within what 2.8 seconds of the encounter?

This videos shows how police should behave. These are the good ones. We ned more.

The thing is, that is exactly how most police do behave. Groups like BLM want us to believe that all white cops are racist, but it just isn't true.


It's odd how filters work. What I get from them is that too many(read:Any) police respond disproportionately to black people, it results in fatalities, and until recently is was widely under reported in the news as anything other than an 'and also' line.


Yeah I don't get that either, although I am a long way away. I think they definitely think that there is institutional racism in most, maybe all, police forces in the US but that is very different from saying all white cops are racist. I think they are right in that. It is something we have had to address in the UK and it was easier for us as we have far fewer police forces and those we do have are quite large.

The video was pretty good. I think that there could be a few things done a little bit better. In the UK you would have been told why you are being searched and what specifically they are looking for before the search. The police officer in charge would also have told the person stopped their name and station.
 
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J.D. Hall
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kuhrusty wrote:
Am I the only one who has a problem with the police stopping a citizen and searching him in this case?

I know the 4th amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches, but is this a reasonable search? I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't seem so to me; if all it takes is (for example) an anonymous tip as vague as "large black male, wearing all black, with something on top of his head," the 4th amendment doesn't protect us at all; an officer who wants to search you can manufacture that easily.


Steven is correct. The gentleman in question was a rough match of a suspect in an armed bank robbery, and was just a minute or so from the scene of the crime. They questioned him, searched him, determined he was not who they were looking for and let him go. Damn fine police work in my opinion.
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Andy Beaton
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So what should I be taking away here? One instance of professional behaviour implies that there are no instances of unprofessional behaviour?
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jeremy cobert
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aiabx wrote:
So what should I be taking away here? One instance of professional behaviour implies that there are no instances of unprofessional behaviour?


So does One instance of unprofessional behaviour implies that there are many instances of unprofessional behavior ?

Because that's what BLM is all about.
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aiabx wrote:
So what should I be taking away here? One instance of professional behaviour implies that there are no instances of unprofessional behaviour?


Nah.

This is basically intended as the opposite: a reminder that there are still many cops who do behave in a professional manner. It is not intended to absolve the bad people, but rather reinforce that we, as a civilian community, need to extend the same courtesy of belief in goodness and cooperation that we expect out of the police.

Don't take out your frustrations with the bad people on the good people.
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remorseless1 wrote:
The gentleman in question was a rough match of a suspect in an armed bank robbery, and was just a minute or so from the scene of the crime. They questioned him, searched him, determined he was not who they were looking for and let him go. Damn fine police work in my opinion.

But, as a citizen, when should you permit the police to search you? Officers are allowed to lie to you; is "you fit the description of a suspect in some crime" all an officer has to say to get around the 4th amendment?

I know there must be a lot of existing law around this stuff; I just don't know what it is, and seeing the police stop an innocent man and dig through his things to see if he might be a criminal gives me the heebie-jeebies.
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aiabx wrote:
So what should I be taking away here? One instance of professional behaviour implies that there are no instances of unprofessional behaviour?


Hope.
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James King
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jeremycobert wrote:
Wait, A black man can have an encounter with the police where he does not get shot? Someone alert the Democrat party, we need to kill this story pronto !

What a false issue to raise when the actual issue behind the Black Lives Matter movement is the enabling of bad-apple cops to get off scot-free for differentially enforcing certain laws against African Americans which results in the senseless deaths of unarmed and lawfully-armed African American victims.


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James King
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jeremycobert wrote:
aiabx wrote:
So what should I be taking away here? One instance of professional behaviour implies that there are no instances of unprofessional behaviour?
\
So does One instance of unprofessional behaviour implies that there are many instances of unprofessional behavior ?

Because that's what BLM is all about.

No, it's not. Since the Ferguson, MO incident two years ago, the number of reported incidents involving bad-apple cops whose actions resulted in the senseless deaths of both unarmed and lawfully-armed African Americans have risen significantly while the statistics for police deaths in the line of duty had been on the decline.


 
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remorseless1 wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
Am I the only one who has a problem with the police stopping a citizen and searching him in this case?

I know the 4th amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches, but is this a reasonable search? I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't seem so to me; if all it takes is (for example) an anonymous tip as vague as "large black male, wearing all black, with something on top of his head," the 4th amendment doesn't protect us at all; an officer who wants to search you can manufacture that easily.


Steven is correct. The gentleman in question was a rough match of a suspect in an armed bank robbery, and was just a minute or so from the scene of the crime. They questioned him, searched him, determined he was not who they were looking for and let him go. Damn fine police work in my opinion.

On the contrary, it was mighty inept police work because one very telling detail had been overlooked in that description of the attempted bank robber: He had been wearing shorts, not long pants.

So, because of that oversight, the actual attempted bank robber probably was able to get away because of their failure to get a proper full description of the perpetrator.

Amazingly, the police also told that African-American gentleman that "now is not the best time to be there in that park" -- and it was broad daylight!

Since his home was just down the street from that park, that's tantamount to saying that that black gentleman that it was inadvisable for him to be out and about in his own neighborhood.



 
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kuhrusty wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
The gentleman in question was a rough match of a suspect in an armed bank robbery, and was just a minute or so from the scene of the crime. They questioned him, searched him, determined he was not who they were looking for and let him go. Damn fine police work in my opinion.

But, as a citizen, when should you permit the police to search you? Officers are allowed to lie to you; is "you fit the description of a suspect in some crime" all an officer has to say to get around the 4th amendment?

I know there must be a lot of existing law around this stuff; I just don't know what it is, and seeing the police stop an innocent man and dig through his things to see if he might be a criminal gives me the heebie-jeebies.


https://www.quora.com/Why-are-police-officers-allowed-to-lie...
Quote:

There are limits though, and you can't lie about things which implicate legal issues, like telling somebody who doesn't understand the law don't worry about Miranda as you interrogate him or telling someone you have a search warrant when you don't so as to coerce "consent".


The person in the video did not have to consent to a search. And he did have the right to ask if he was being arrested. The police could have detained him for an undefined while. And because there really was a suspect in a bank robbery nearby who matched his description, that could probably be a longer while.

But generally, being a dick when a half dozen cops are walking up to you in a mode to shoot you probably isn't smart or wise. At the least, you might turn a 10 minute stop into a multi hour ordeal.

https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/how-long-can-police-deta...

There's a pretty good chance you could turn a short stop into a legal case ($$$$$) with very little effort. As citizens, we rely on the good will of police officers. And police officers are effected by the quantity of complaints they get (so a feedback loop) and the cost/discomfort they bring down on their police force.

It's why i support cams. They enforce good behavior on citizens as well as police and they reduce false citizen complaints against police (solid evidence in studies easy to google for this).
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maxo-texas wrote:
The person in the video did not have to consent to a search.

Sure, if he consented, then I have no problem with any of this, but did he consent? It's not clear from the video that he was even aware that his backpack was being searched until an officer was elbow-deep in his stuff.

maxo-texas wrote:
But generally, being a dick when a half dozen cops are walking up to you in a mode to shoot you probably isn't smart or wise.

How did exercising your legal rights turn into "being a dick"?? Some people exercise their rights; some people are dicks; I don't think one of those is a subset of the other.
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kuhrusty wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The person in the video did not have to consent to a search.

Sure, if he consented, then I have no problem with any of this, but did he consent? It's not clear from the video that he was even aware that his backpack was being searched until an officer was elbow-deep in his stuff.

maxo-texas wrote:
But generally, being a dick when a half dozen cops are walking up to you in a mode to shoot you probably isn't smart or wise.

How did exercising your legal rights turn into "being a dick"?? Some people exercise their rights; some people are dicks; I don't think one of those is a subset of the other.


If you don't have anything in your backpack, denying the officer the right to look in it to stand on your rights when the officer tells you there is an active crime in progress is being a dick. Because the pokemon guy wasn't a dick, the incident was over in 7 minutes and the police went on to actively work the original crime. If he had been a dick, at least a couple officers would have been tied up for hours unable to try and catch an armed and dangerous suspect.

Make sense?
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maxo-texas wrote:
If you don't have anything in your backpack, denying the officer the right to look in it to stand on your rights when the officer tells you there is an active crime in progress is being a dick.

No way. Police officers are allowed to lie to you about there being an active crime in progress, and they are allowed to lie to you about having an eyewitness who identified you at the scene. If an officer stops you, tells you you match the description of a suspect in an active crime in progress, and asks to search you, all you know for sure is the officer wants to search you. (And in this specific case, I don't think "an active crime in progress" is accurate--the crime was already over by that point. And as long as I'm quibbling over your word choice, "denying the officer the right"--the officer doesn't have the right to search you in case you might be a criminal.)

And "if you don't have anything in your backpack"--also bogus. First, the bill of rights doesn't exist solely to protect criminals; it's to protect all citizens, and exercising your 4th or 5th amendment rights doesn't mean you have anything criminal to hide any more than exercising your 2nd amendment rights means you're planning to shoot someone. And second, I'm not a lawyer: there are a lot of weird laws out there, and I sure don't know all of them, but the 4th amendment means I don't have to. Does giving police permission to search your backpack also give them permission to search your phone? Is dolphin porn illegal in your state? Trust me, prison is especially hard for flipper fappers.
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kuhrusty wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
If you don't have anything in your backpack, denying the officer the right to look in it to stand on your rights when the officer tells you there is an active crime in progress is being a dick.

No way. Police officers are allowed to lie to you about there being an active crime in progress, and they are allowed to lie to you about having an eyewitness who identified you at the scene. If an officer stops you, tells you you match the description of a suspect in an active crime in progress, and asks to search you, all you know for sure is the officer wants to search you. (And in this specific case, I don't think "an active crime in progress" is accurate--the crime was already over by that point. And as long as I'm quibbling over your word choice, "denying the officer the right"--the officer doesn't have the right to search you in case you might be a criminal.)

And "if you don't have anything in your backpack"--also bogus. First, the bill of rights doesn't exist solely to protect criminals; it's to protect all citizens, and exercising your 4th or 5th amendment rights doesn't mean you have anything criminal to hide any more than exercising your 2nd amendment rights means you're planning to shoot someone. And second, I'm not a lawyer: there are a lot of weird laws out there, and I sure don't know all of them, but the 4th amendment means I don't have to. Does giving police permission to search your backpack also give them permission to search your phone? Is dolphin porn illegal in your state? Trust me, prison is especially hard for flipper fappers.


So we simply disagree on where the reasonable line is. You'd stick up for yer rights and be detained for between 10 minutes and 36 hours and I'd be done in under 10 minutes most the time with a higher risk of arrest if they found something like dolphin porn.

I agree you are correct about the rights. Police do have some limits on lying but they don't follow them in many cases and testilying is a thing. But if the cop has I'll intent, they can plant dolphin porn anyway. Or beat the crap out of you while saying you are resisting arrest.

So you are more strongly for your rights and I'm more strongly for placation. Both approaches can go badly. Both can work better under different circumstances.
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Mac;

One more time. Never talk to the police.
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