Hrvoje Roncevic
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Zagreb
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Background:
We played over dozen games, and my group mostly feels:
- without wars and aggressions game isn't balanced (Mike, Will, Sid, ...)
- wars can be disasterous to some players (losing lots of yellows), which again creates unbalanced games (unless they quit and that is no fun either)


Current house rules:
1) Wars and aggressions can be redirected to the bank
- Loser decides whether to take the punishment as normal, or lose 2 cultures per current age (active age, not the card age)
- Victor/Aggressor takes rewards as per normal rules (can't take more ore then player has, can't take down building/wonder if player doesn't have it).
2) Event cards cannot be redirected
- otherwise it is to easy to ignore the first age military

Results:
- More friendly game, but still has military tension
- Having smaller army is still a handicap, but players can recover
- Having biggest army will grant lots of ore and culture, without forcing other players to quit
- In games where people ignored military and tried to "tank" it with Michelangelo it didn't pay of. Some strength is still needed, and if you are a lot weaker then all other players, you will be harvested and lose
- We tried 1 per age = not enough to punish a player, we tried with 3 per age seemed too much.
- That card that kills leader or wonder is almost useless now, and before it was insanely good. I thought to make it an exception, but it's easier to play if you don't have exceptions.

P.S. I personally enjoy the standard rules, but only when playing against cutthroat friends. I love the tension. This is much better for friendlier crowds
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Fabrice Essner
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Nissa
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For me that's a non-sense. Military is part of the game... as unfortunately part of the real-life civilization !

- Cold War, was because both countries are powerful enough.
- Inca's Civilization disappear because they were not enough armed vs Spanish
- and so on....

That's the life, and that's the game.

In my games sometimes military won, sometimes not, but usually if one of us "forget" to play military, he won't "forget" next game ! devil
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Matthew Kameron
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Hmm
I am a fan of the full game, but appreciate the desire to have a 'reduced conflict' variant. I might even like to play one with my less-war-inclined friends.

What about: make the culture cost be 3 times the number of MA required to play the card.

That way, early game is 3 or 6 culture; late game tends towards 9 culture. I think that small penalties will reward non-military too much, which I think may imbalance the game. This way the penalty is more similar all game.
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Hrvoje Roncevic
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@Matthew Kameron

"3 times the number of MA" - some late game aggressions still cost 1 MA.It is almost the same but I prefere the simpler solution (easier to explain).

"9 culture" vs "6 culture" - currently with 2-3 attacks in age III you "catch up" one wonder. With "9 culture", it would be around 2. Based on my group, we prefere the "6" variant.



@Fabrice Essner
I completly agree. When I can choose, I like to play the normal game.
I think it's the way it should be played (I just miss the map to make it a perfect civ).

But sometimes (often), I get to play with my wife and her sister (good gamers but not confrontational) or some people that play it rarely. Then I can choose among "Peacefull TtA", "Less perilous TtA" and other games in my collection.
I prefere "Less perilous TtA" to most other options. I think "Peacefull TtA" is really broken and might prefere other games before that.
 
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Kester J
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How does War over Technology work here? Allowing players to prevent the stealing of blue cards would make this war pretty useless. Do you make a copy of the stolen blue cards for the winner of the war, but the targeted player also keeps them?

And what if you don't have the culture points to lose? Do you have to suffer the standard aggression effect?
 
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Hrvoje Roncevic
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"War over Technology" - we make compromise on the spot. Player doesn't lose the card, and winner can pick some other blue card from discard (preferably the same) or raise his science

"don't have the culture points to lose" - didn't happen so far. I would rule it as "you need to suffer the effect".
 
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Fabrice Essner
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OK Hrvoje. I used to play with snakesssssss rather my family ! So our games are everything but peaceful ! devil
 
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Hugh Grotius
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Quote:
- Victor/Aggressor takes rewards as per normal rules (can't take more ore then player has, can't take down building/wonder if player doesn't have it).


Just so I understand -- the victor takes the rewards from the bank, not from the defeated player? Can you give a couple concrete examples of how this works? (I do like the idea of keeping military relevant without stinging the defeated player so much.)
 
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Matthew Kameron
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ronac wrote:
@Matthew Kameron

"3 times the number of MA" - some late game aggressions still cost 1 MA.It is almost the same but I prefere the simpler solution (easier to explain).

"9 culture" vs "6 culture" - currently with 2-3 attacks in age III you "catch up" one wonder. With "9 culture", it would be around 2. Based on my group, we prefere the "6" variant.

Actually I just thought about it some more. The game already has a balancing value for this kind of thing... you are using 2/4/6 based on 'current age'.
HOWEVER the balancing mechanic is 3/5/7 based on 'age of card'.

E.g.

In Age I, aggressions take 3 rock/food or 3 science
In Age II, aggressions take 5 rock/food or 5 science
In Age III, aggressions take 7 rock/food or 7 culture

So... I think that using 3/5/7 by age of card would be the most consistent penalty to apply.
 
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LudoH LudoH
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I like the idea!

I think I will give it a try: we mostly played peaceful + global war in my group of players because we thought that having your civilization potentially ruined by a war at the middle of the game was not really fun; this looks like an interesting variant to me
 
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LudoH LudoH
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Hi all,

Just a small post for a brief report; we made our last F2F games with such kind of variant, and we really enjoyed it; we did not use very often the possibility to loose VP instead of the effect of the war/aggression, but used it a couple of times. I like the fact that you should not neglect military as you could do in the peaceful+GW variant, but if you have a really good opportunity that means staying in military behind for a while you can do it; I feel like it open more different paths to victory than either the peaceful+GW variant or the normal game.

Our last game was interesting as one of us stayed way behind in military but built a better engine, used the "loose points" option once or twice, and at the end the scores were very close: the non-military player lost of less than 15 points out of 170.

The exact point compensation I use:

<< To avoid suffering the negative effect of an aggression you should loose 2VPs per age of the card. For a war it is 3 VPs per age of the card. Positive effect for the winner are gained as usual. >>

I feel this price is mostly balanced but if I could I would have given a different price for each card (at least based on the number of MAs it costs)
 
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