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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shi.Kyu vs damage prevention effects. rss

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Yuriy Deomidov
Ukraine
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The question is: can a runner choose to take damage, use damage prevention effects and not have to add Shi.Kyu to their score area?

Shi.Kyu reads: When the Runner accesses Shi.Kyū, you may pay X. The Runner must take either X net damage or add Shi.Kyū to his or her score area as an agenda worth -1 agenda point. Ignore this ability if the Runner accesses Shi.Kyū from R&D.

I didn't find any rulings for this case.

What I've found is ruling for Snatch and Grab.
Snatch and grab: Trace3– If successful, trash 1 connection. The Runner can take 1 tag to prevent this.
Ruling: If you prevent the tag then the first part is not prevented and you lose the connection.

This seem to imply that same is true for Shi.Kyu - if the damage isn't taken fully, the cost for avoiding it in score area isn't paid.

But then there is also ruling on Wotan, which allows to take damage, prevent it and pass Wotan.

Wotan: Subroutine>End the run unless the Runner spends ClickClick.
Subroutine>End the run unless the Runner pays 3Credit.
Subroutine>End the run unless the Runner trashes 1 installed program.
Subroutine>End the run unless the Runner takes 1 brain damage


Ruling: If the Runner chooses to trash an installed program or take 1 brain damage but prevents either effect, the subroutine is still satisfied and the run continues.

So now I'm really confused. Anyone can clarify?
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Maui Chris
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once taking the net damage they wouldn't have to add it to their score area, even if they used some kind of damage prevention ability. They still took the net damage. & it's a choice of one or the the other.

for Wotan, subroutines fire in order from top to bottom. The runner can choose to only break some, & let the others fire, but normally, the 1st sub to fire is the end-the-run sub. if that sub fires, the run is over and no other subs fire. Any just the same, any damage taken can be prevented if the runner has some ability in play that allows them to since there's no "cannot be prevented" statement on Wotan's subrountines
 
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Yuriy Deomidov
Ukraine
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I know how ICE works, the question is about two bottom subroutines of Wotan and generally about mechanic:
option 1: "something" happens
*** OR ***
option 2: runner choses to recieves damage/tag/trash program etc. and "something" doesn't happen.
And it interaction with effects that allow runner to prevent damage/tag/trash.
In some cases (Wotan) runner can chose option 1 than prevent those effects and still satisfy condition. In others (Snatch and Grab) if runner prevents an effect, condition isn't satisfied and option 1 still happens.

Why Snatch and Grab work differently than Wotan in this situation?
 
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Brendan Riley
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The key difference is the word "to" (as in "do X to prevent Y") vs "unless". Discussed thoroughly in this thread:
Thread about snatch and grab
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Yuriy Deomidov
Ukraine
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Ah, that makes sense. Though I wish they had worded it better.
So if I understand correctly, since Shi.Kyu doesn't have "take damage TO ... " clause, it would be legal to:
- When you access Shi.Kyu and corp pays for it, declare you are taking damage
- Prevent all/part of that damage
- Don't add Shi.Kyu into your score area.
 
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