$30.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
66 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: FFG's (Asmodee's) pricing in FLGS rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Reid
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
From what I understand about Fantasy Flight's new policies, they were trying to make it easier for brick and mortar stores to compete with online sales. Forgive me if some of my info is botched, as I didn't follow the press releases very closely; I know some of you were VERY vested in the news on this, so you can probably help me with my questions.

I've noticed that pricing on FFG products has risen on sites like CSI and MM. However, all of my FLGSs still sell those products for MSRP. Amazon has been my best option lately with FLGSs being the highest priced. Have you folks noticed the same thing? Did I miss something, and this is how it's supposed to be? Has the new policy of making FLGSs more competitive just not been put into place yet? Did anyone understand my flurry of acronyms?

I'm not being ironic or antagonistic here, I sincerely want to know if I misunderstood something or if my shopping experiences have been unique, especially around the Pittsburgh area.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian K
United States
Albany
New York
flag msg tools
Every game store in my area does MSRP + %25 off. Puts it exactly in line with MM/CSI/etc. You still save a few bucks on tax though via online retailers in my state, though if you need it ASAP you aren't going to often find the games much cheaper, though as we have seen thus far Asmodee stuff goes on sale at MM/CSI/etc and there are no sales at my FLGS's.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
burningecho wrote:
I've noticed that pricing on FFG products has risen on sites like CSI and MM. However, all of my FLGSs still sell those products for MSRP. Amazon has been my best option lately with FLGSs being the highest priced. Have you folks noticed the same thing? Did I miss something, and this is how it's supposed to be?


Yes. No, that is how it is suppose to be.

Also, Asmodee owns way more than just FFG and they are acquiring more(Z-Man), so eventually a rather significant amount of games will fall under their pricing policy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
You may call me
Canada
Burlington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In my area, my FLGS have deep discount prices and their online prices reflect the increase that Asmodee has enforced, however if you walk in to their stores they have a different more discounted price on the shelf.

I would say their tactic has worked, I've found myself skipping online shopping and going in more often now.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Wionzek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You misunderstood what exactly happened.

The theory is, Asmodee reduced volume pricing discounts to online retailers without physical retailer presence, in order to reduce "undercutting" by online retailers with little overhead cost compared to actual storefronts.

The idea wasn't "bring FLGS prices down". It was "bring online store prices closer to FLGS prices to incentivize people shopping at retail stores".

Asmodee (FFG in particular) has a lot of games that benefit (or exist purely because-of) having in-person communities of people, and stores don't want to support those games if people just buy all of them online at prices that retail stores can't compete with.

By trying to gently direct people towards shopping at said retail outlets, they want to encourage those stores to sell their products and continue to create a market for in-person store-level playing of their titles.

Some people say "No they just raised prices" but they didn't, really. They decreased discounts a certain market segment gets for volume buying. People say this is the same thing, but it isn't. They only see the final dollar value at the end of the road without understanding how that number comes to be.
25 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trent DePonte
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
Dragoonkin wrote:
You misunderstood what exactly happened.

The theory is, Asmodee reduced volume pricing discounts to online retailers without physical retailer presence, in order to reduce "undercutting" by online retailers with little overhead cost compared to actual storefronts.

The idea wasn't "bring FLGS prices down". It was "bring online store prices closer to FLGS prices to incentivize people shopping at retail stores".

Asmodee (FFG in particular) has a lot of games that benefit (or exist purely because-of) having in-person communities of people, and stores don't want to support those games if people just buy all of them online at prices that retail stores can't compete with.

By trying to gently direct people towards shopping at said retail outlets, they want to encourage those stores to sell their products and continue to create a market for in-person store-level playing of their titles.

Some people say "No they just raised prices" but they didn't, really. They decreased discounts a certain market segment gets for volume buying. People say this is the same thing, but it isn't. They only see the final dollar value at the end of the road without understanding how that number comes to be.


Either that theory is wrong or MM is really taking it on the chin matching CoolStuff's prices on FFG stuff.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve R Bullock
United States
Palm Coast
Florida
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Dragoonkin wrote:
Some people say "No they just raised prices" but they didn't, really. They decreased discounts a certain market segment gets for volume buying. People say this is the same thing, but it isn't. They only see the final dollar value at the end of the road without understanding how that number comes to be.


Actually, by offering less discounts, they DID raise prices for the online stores.
Offering less discounts = online stores paying more= raising the prices of the games the stores have to pay.

I suppose it is just how you look at it.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Wionzek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
FellintoOblivion wrote:
Either that theory is wrong or MM is really taking it on the chin matching CoolStuff's prices on FFG stuff.


I'm not sure what you mean? Both Miniature Market and CoolStuffInc have retail locations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skyguard
msg tools
mbmb
Dragoonkin wrote:
Some people say "No they just raised prices" but they didn't, really. They decreased discounts a certain market segment gets for volume buying. People say this is the same thing, but it isn't. They only see the final dollar value at the end of the road without understanding how that number comes to be.


It is the same thing for the end consumer. Prices for Asmodee games are now higher, and Asmodee makes more money off certain market segments now. Time will only tell if they have pushed prices too high.

I wonder personal what it will mean for a lot of the $99 MSRP games that FFG has, full MSRP for them to me is a tough sell. I was hoping we might see a down tick in where they price games with the new pricing structure in mind however the new mansion of madness 2nd Edition is coming out a $99 when the 1st Edition was $80 so it's not looking that way to me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Wionzek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Skyguard wrote:
It is the same thing for the end consumer. Prices for Asmodee games are now higher, and Asmodee makes more money off certain market segments now.


Sort-of but not really? By raising prices to large-volume sellers, they likely decreased the orders those sellers make, which trickles-down to Asmodee ordering less product overall, which then increases the price they have to pay per-unit to have their items manufactured.

Especially in a niche market like ours, a lot of the "impulse purchasers" who bought things purely because they were cheap online likely didn't just go pay more for them somewhere else. They just didn't buy whatever they had their eyes on.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
burningecho wrote:
I've noticed that pricing on FFG products has risen on sites like CSI and MM. However, all of my FLGSs still sell those products for MSRP. Amazon has been my best option lately with FLGSs being the highest priced. Have you folks noticed the same thing? Did I miss something, and this is how it's supposed to be? Has the new policy of making FLGSs more competitive just not been put into place yet?
They're making FLGS's more compeititve by raising the prices they sell to online stores. Because CSI and MM's cost went up, they went up on their prices to consumers, which makes their prices closer to your FLGS's price. And thus your FLGS is "more competitive".

Unlike the way companies usually become more competitive, like offering better services or prices, this increases competition by forcing the better companies (at least in terms of pricing) to behave more like the worst companies. Now the worse companies might have a viable chance against the better companies who have been forced to perform more poorly. You're welcome.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete
United States
Northbrook
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm pretty sure I've stopped buying from them.

Pete (doesn't track purchases by company, but does typically buy whatever's on sale, and can't recall a FFG purchase recently)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Retailer here...

For the most part, prices remained identical for B&M stores. The gap is narrowed in price, which his has been driving more customers into physical locations. This serves ANA's purpose because:
1) Stores now stock more ANA products.
2) Stores now promote ANA games more.
3) Stores run more ANA events.
4) Stores become able to offer better rewards (discount) programs for customers.
5) Opening a good game store becomes more attractive.
6) Etc.
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
Unlike the way companies usually become more competitive, like offering better services or prices, this increases competition by forcing the better companies (at least in terms of pricing) to behave more like the worst companies. Now the worse companies might have a viable chance against the better companies who have been forced to perform more poorly. You're welcome.

Fortunately, final price is only a very small piece of the puzzle for most people.
My 'worse' company now sells more ANA games, allowing me to add another tier to my discount matrix for members - 31% off MSRP.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Wionzek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
Unlike the way companies usually become more competitive, like offering etter services or prices, this increases competition by forcing the better companies (at least in terms of pricing) to behave more like the worst companies. Now the worse companies might have a viable chance against the better companies who have been forced to perform more poorly. You're welcome.


This is an oversimplification, unfortunately.

Part of the issue (which I brought up briefly, but I guess I'll expand upon) is organized play.

I'm not going to invite random people off the street to my house to play (for instance) Netrunner. But I'll happily go somewhere to play with them.

In my case, I go to a local game store. They run LCG play nights, and a good amount of tournaments. They have no incentive to do these things, if everyone just buys all their cards online and spends nothing in the store.

I would have nowhere to play, so I wouldn't buy cards as I'd not be playing the game. Their revenue from me drops to zero; regardless of whether I was buying the cards in a store or online, I'm no longer buying cards because of other-people buying them online making the local shop not consider it a viable product to carry or support.

Another factor is brand-value. Creating a "buy and dump" economy of product where resellers are more interested in their throughput than the value of any particular transaction makes a market where the perceived value of items is diminished.

You can see it here, where people say "Well I won't buy that because it's more expensive than online". The value of the branding -- whether the product, or the company's in general -- has been diminished by the bottom being taken out of the market by low-margin online sellers who care about volume at pennies-a-sale and price-matching other low-margin online sellers.

On top of that pressure is FFG's various licensing agreements. It does not look good when products your brand is attached to are being "cleared out" because an online retailer overbought (to make minimum order margins, for their discount) and now is dumping at cost.

Basically there's a million individual factors, but to most people it just boils down to "Asmodee increased prices because retail stores are an outdated business model and can't compete" when...well...that's not really correct.
25 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Ramos
United States
Nolensville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
aaaand here we go again . . .
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dragoonkin wrote:
Basically there's a million individual factors, but to most people it just boils down to "Asmodee increased prices because retail stores are an outdated business model and can't compete" when...well...that's not really correct.
My kingdom for more thumbs!

Before ANA's pricing change, I still heavily promoted events for LCGs. Close to 75% of all my attendees did all their shipping online. Now, about 90% just buy from me .

In a way, ANA has created a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Good game stores are a major driving force of demand. Mediocre game stores really aren't. ANA is making it easier for mediocre game stores to improve, in theory. Obviously, we will see what actually happens.

18 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Istanbul
Colorado
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
burningecho wrote:
I've noticed that pricing on FFG products has risen on sites like CSI and MM. However, all of my FLGSs still sell those products for MSRP. Amazon has been my best option lately with FLGSs being the highest priced. Have you folks noticed the same thing? Did I miss something, and this is how it's supposed to be? Has the new policy of making FLGSs more competitive just not been put into place yet?
They're making FLGS's more compeititve by raising the prices they sell to online stores. Because CSI and MM's cost went up, they went up on their prices to consumers, which makes their prices closer to your FLGS's price. And thus your FLGS is "more competitive".

Unlike the way companies usually become more competitive, like offering better services or prices, this increases competition by forcing the better companies (at least in terms of pricing) to behave more like the worst companies. Now the worse companies might have a viable chance against the better companies who have been forced to perform more poorly. You're welcome.


Trump needs an economic advisor... your grasp of the issue seems about deep enough to qualify.
10 
 Thumb up
0.06
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Wionzek
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
JRietveld wrote:
Before ANA's pricing change, I still heavily promoted events for LCGs. Close to 75% of all my attendees did all their shipping online. Now, about 90% just buy from me .


Personally, I used to buy my cards from the store just down the road from me. But I didn't play there.

Once I found a solid place to play all-the-time (at least weekly, if not more) I moved all my purchasing to there. It's awkward and out of my way, but I feel it's fair to reward the place providing me both a space and a community with my patronage.

The side-effect has become that now I do nearly 100% of my game shopping at that store, and almost none at the store close to where I live. I'm more willing to drive a half-hour across town to support a store meeting my needs than one close to me that's not offering me as much.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Istanbul
Colorado
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I do the same for a good pizzeria. There are crap options within spitting distance, but the one that deserves the patronage and provides the best product requires a 25 minute drive.

Pain? A little.
Benefit differential... great.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
darthhugo wrote:
I do the same for a good pizzeria. There are crap options within spitting distance, but the one that deserves the patronage and provides the best product requires a 25 minute drive.

Pain? A little.
Benefit differential... great.

I boggle at times at how far people will go:
Pete showing up with warm soda instead of paying for a cold can in-store.
Rick driving 30 miles to save $0.50 each on several expansions.
Joe asking other game night attendees if they would give him their empty cans at the end of game night.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dragoonkin wrote:
Part of the issue (which I brought up briefly, but I guess I'll expand upon) is organized play.
That's great for you. But I'm not interested in organized play, and most of the organized play in my area is just Magic. Regardless, there are ways for a publisher to support organized play that don't involve forcing online retailers to raise prices.

Dragoonkin wrote:
Another factor is brand-value. Creating a "buy and dump" economy of product where resellers are more interested in their throughput than the value of any particular transaction makes a market where the perceived value of items is diminished.
Except that it's the online stores are the ones selling products at lower prices. And generally they sell at a lower price not because they're dumping stock, but because they can afford to sell the product for less. They don't have the same overhead that a FLGS does and thus don't need to mark it up as much as a FLGS.

FLGS's are hoping that customers find enough value in their physical location, helpful staff, play space, etc. that they'll pay a higher price for games. They're bundling those perks in with the game you buy. When someone buys a game online, they're saying that those perks aren't worth what they cost. They're willing to pay less and give up those benefits. So yeah, they perceive that the value of the game (and whatever else the FLGS offers) is less than what the FLGS charges. When you force a higher price, you don't raise the perceived value of the game, you simply make it cost more.

Dragoonkin wrote:
On top of that pressure is FFG's various licensing agreements. It does not look good when products your brand is attached to are being "cleared out" because an online retailer overbought (to make minimum order margins, for their discount) and now is dumping at cost.
Part of the problem is that the publisher doesn't want to deal with the hassle of selling small batches and having a lot of transactions, and all the transactional costs of dealing with many orders and lots of shipping. So they put in an order minimum that is hard for small retailers to meet. Which leads to the overbuy and dump issue. If the publisher really wanted to avoid this problem, they could lower the order minimums. "Making the FLGS more competitive" is an indirect solution to the problem, which might not even solve the problem for many FLGS's but has the benefit of requiring the publisher to make no extra effort and spend no additional money.

Dragoonkin wrote:
The value of the branding -- whether the product, or the company's in general -- has been diminished by the bottom being taken out of the market by low-margin online sellers who care about volume at pennies-a-sale and price-matching other low-margin online sellers.
What company is selling items at pennies over cost on a regular basis? I think you're making claims that just aren't true here.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
Part of the problem is that the publisher doesn't want to deal with the hassle of selling small batches and having a lot of transactions, and all the transactional costs of dealing with many orders and lots of shipping. So they put in an order minimum that is hard for small retailers to meet. Which leads to the overbuy and dump issue. If the publisher really wanted to avoid this problem, they could lower the order minimums. "Making the FLGS more competitive" is an indirect solution to the problem, which might not even solve the problem for many FLGS's but has the benefit of requiring the publisher to make no extra effort and spend no additional money.

Much of the issue here comes down to misunderstanding how the economics work in this type of business. Your point on selling batches would be perfectly valid in some industries, but not here. It's actually quite the opposite.

Distributors buy in far larger bulk than OLGS', and FLGS' get almost all their games from the distributors.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Iori Yagami
Latvia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Asmodee, schmasmodee...
what's the point of you anyway? yuk

I mean, just do some nice changes... Like finally grab FFG guys by... whatever and make they finally make usable box inserts or smth. laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skyguard
msg tools
mbmb
JRietveld wrote:
.
My 'worse' company now sells more ANA games, allowing me to add another tier to my discount matrix for members - 31% off MSRP.


Which does me no good (and is not as good a what online stores were offering), and you can only do because you get a price that online stores don't.

While this change was good for physical store owners as it reduced the competition from online stores, how was it good for the normal consumer?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.