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Subject: Gameplay Questions... rss

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Paul Nojima
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1. Can you search a room multiple times? Camp out and just search until you get what you're looking for? If no, how would you specify that a room has already been "looted"?

2. If you're in a room with a sleeping Thrall and Warrior (for example) and let sunlight in... the Warrior burns up and dies but the Thrall does not. Does the Thrall then wake up? I'm sure the warrior would make a lot of noise... what with being on fire and all. =)

3. On some of the Vampire Activation cards, there are both green and red icons in the second (Vamp movement) section... "Up to 1 Area away -> to your area"

If I'm not mistaken, green is a roamer (vamp with no hunter in its space) while red is a vamp sharing a space with a hunter... Would a red-icon vampire leave the hunter they're with to come to your space? (Vampire Activation is drawn after each player's turn, right?) Basically playing ping-pong with a vampire...?
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Tony At DGG
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Thanks for the questions!

"Can you search a room multiple times?"
Yes, otherwise there is too much tracking. We want the game to flow.

"Camp out and just search until you get what you're looking for?"
Probably not. All Hunts are against the clock. The game clock is running, you will be out of time.

"If you're in a room with a sleeping Thrall and Warrior (for example) and let sunlight in... the Warrior burns up and dies but the Thrall does not."
Failed attacks wake vampires. Noise wakes vampires (there is a noise icon on the window boards, so it is going to be noisy). Thralls burn in the sun, Upyrs are daywalkers. Sunlight affects the whole room.

"If I'm not mistaken, green is a roamer"
We call them stalking Vampires, but you are right.

"red is a vamp sharing a space with a hunter"
Again correct. We call them fighting Vampires but we would like a better name.

"Would a red-icon vampire leave the hunter they're with to come to your space?"
If it is close enough, yes. There is always a distance-along-the-path criteria.

"Basically playing ping-pong with a vampire...?"
I can see the ping-pong analogy if it happens a lot. But:
* Hunters tend to spread out, so that "2 areas away" is important.
*<red Vs> are rarer that <green Vs>, we want fighting vampires to stay and fight.
* Vampires near hunters tend to get killed.

Remember, they move to you and then attack you. So they are not just bouncing around.
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Paul Nojima
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Ah, awesome. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was reading the rules right. I actually rather like the idea of a vampire switching targets from time to time... seems less drone-like in that sense.
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Ricky W
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:
"red is a vamp sharing a space with a hunter"
Again correct. We call them fighting Vampires but we would like a better name.

I'm not a native English speaker, but the word that comes automatically to my mind is *engaged*.

Also *close combat* or *melee ranged*.

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Tony At DGG
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Thank you. Engaged was our first choice.

We want an adjective and noun combination.
* Stalking Vampire and Stalker.
* Fighting Vampire and Fighter.

So
* Engaged Vampires and fiancé?


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Questions regarding Vampire elder/lord:

1) How is the gameplay mechanic for the Vampire elder/lord like? i.e What is the elders' attack behavior? Is there like a special gameplay mechanic for the Vampire Lord that makes them different from the other minions in the way they behave and attack?
I noticed Evaki seems to only have 1 special attack "Vsercal scream", but so does some of the other minions who also has 1 special attack. So does the elder have like a variety of special attacks?


2) Or is there a way to add more variety? e.g have a special deck for each vampire elder/lord which we will draw from during setup or during encounter to determine the vampire elder/lord/s special attack for that game so that each time we replay, there is some variety in the vampire elder/lord(s) that we are facing.

Because currently, though the vampire elders minis look very cool, but they seems to me merely just "stronger minions" that are harder to make successful hits. They seems like they have only 1 special attack just like other minions. My concern is that after a few plays, the boss fights will get a bit stale since they are always the same, especially so when we only have a few vampire elders. It will be the same few boss using the same few attacks.
 
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Gameplay Questions...
Though it was mentioned that when attacking an elder we must first draw and resolve an elder influence card, but the elder influence cards only affects whether a hunter can make a successful hit or not.. It doesn't affect the way the vampire elder behaves or attacks... I mean like you will expect more from a vampire elder, for e,g been bombarded with a different special attack/abilities rather than just 1 same special attack all the time.. It is as though the vampire elder only knows that 1 special attack and doesn't know any other just like the other minions..

There was another backer who mentioned "I thought they might have special behaviors/ attacks similar to Vampire Disciplines or Blood Powers in World Of Darkness. Probably send some crows to attack? Spawn some bats? Suck out blood from a distance? Telekinesis? Obfuscate (hide in shadows) and sneak attack?" I felt this is a good list a special abilities/attacks which the vampire elder/lord could use.
 
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One of the idea that I thought off and also mentioned by 2 more backers is:

Creating a special deck (around 6 to 10 cards) for each of the Vampire Elder that determines their special ability/special attack. The cards can be scaled to cover different difficulty levels; some to give harder boss fights and some balanced.

Then during setup or during encounter, hunters can have a choice to either choose the difficulty of their boss fight or randomised it. Like this then hunters won't know when they will encounter the Elder and they won't know how strong the Elder will be..

The cards can also contain passive abilities and active abilities. Passive abilities like when there more than a certain number of enemies in the same room, the power of darkness empowers the Elder so get additional +1 dice to row or night time give them +1defence or something. Active abilities /skills will be like the Evaki's current special ability showed at the main campaign page whereby its dependent on the dice roll to activate.

Like this, Players can have the flexibility of playing their own variant of the boss fights. For e.g giving the elder more than 1 abilities, or have the elder progressively increasing the number of special attacks as the boss's hp decreases, like draw 1 more elder ability card when his hp is below half 5 and draw another ability when below 3 hp.

Like this the replay value of the game will be increased even more.. This is especially so when we only have a few bosses to fight against..
 
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Ricky W
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:
Thank you. Engaged was our first choice.

We want an adjective and noun combination.
* Stalking Vampire and Stalker.
* Fighting Vampire and Fighter.

So
* Engaged Vampires and fiancé?




Perhaps brawling Vampire and Brawler.

This also helps distinguishing from shooting Vampire/Shooter, if you intend to introduce ranged fighting at some point/expansion (and you really should!).

 
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Tony At DGG
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I shall try to answer a few of the quicker questions while I have some free time.

Quote:
Though it was mentioned that when attacking an elder we must first draw and resolve an elder influence card, but the elder influence cards only affects whether a hunter can make a successful hit or not..

Elder influence cards are not Elder special AI cards, correct. But they have a wider ranging effects than "whether a hunter can make a successful hit or not".

Quote:
Because currently, though the vampire elders minis look very cool, but they seems to me merely just "stronger minions" that are harder to make successful hits.

The Elder special abilities will make them quite different from each other. We have never said they only have one special ability.

Also there special instructions in the Hunts giving Elders Hunt specific actions, so they operate differently each time you meet them.

More answers to come. I know I have not answered them all!

 
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Tony At DGG
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Okay, the rest of the questions relate to AI cards, I think.

At the moment, the Activation Cards do a pretty good job of creating random but thematic behavior. It is generally true that the Vampires come towards you and attack. But because you do not know whether stalkers or fighters (or both groups) will move, or how far they will move, the game is less predictable that many move-the-hoard-and-attack games.

The Elders do add a difference, without any special cards. It might seem a bit surprising until you play. The minions are quite easy to kill; they approach, fight, you kill them. The Elders have much more Health and take many attacks to kill. So you have a choice, stand and fight, burning up your actions (remember you are playing against the clock) or move off and get on with your objectives. If you move, the Elder does a pretty good job of chasing you.

Box 1 on the activation cards is the "special box". Many different things happen here, really mixing things up.

In addition, the Vampires that are important to the Hunt's story are given specific actions to perform in the Hunt scenario definition, which add some character.

Finally, the game is not really about killing Vampires. It's about completing your objectives. So in the game, you're not thinking so much about killing the Vampires, it's more about getting what you need to do done within the time limit.

But I am not closing the door on AI cards. Wait and see what we have in store.

Sorry if I missed a question in there.
 
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Pleng
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:

Finally, the game is not really about killing Vampires. It's about completing your objectives. So in the game, you're not thinking so much about killing the Vampires, it's more about getting what you need to do done within the time limit.




This. Looks interesting.

Back. Not Back........Back....... No No No..........blush
 
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:
In addition, the Vampires that are important to the Hunt's story are given specific actions to perform in the Hunt scenario definition, which add some character.

Finally, the game is not really about killing Vampires. It's about completing your objectives. So in the game, you're not thinking so much about killing the Vampires, it's more about getting what you need to do done within the time limit.


Tony at DGgames US wrote:

Also there special instructions in the Hunts giving Elders Hunt specific actions, so they operate differently each time you meet them.


Thanks alot for taking time to reply and type out all these.. Very glad to read these part. Sounds interesting.. Especially about how the Vampire elders' behaviour is varied and can differ between scenarios. Sounds like an interesting mechanic.. Good job
 
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:
The Elder special abilities will make them quite different from each other. We have never said they only have one special ability.


LOL!! Of course the elder's special ability differs from other(like duh??)hahas. What I was saying is that each of the elder's only have 1 special ability. I was hoping that each of the Elder can have a range of special abilities. E.g in 1 round, I face Evaki with vsceral scream, but the next round I face Evaki with perhaps life drain or something..

What I suggested above doesn't involve changing the AI of the Vampire Elder, changing something that major at this stage is pretty crazy and risky. I'm only suggesting that each of the Elders be given more special abilities each, the mechanics and AI remains the same.. I think quite a few backers also gave certain suggestions on that..
 
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Harv Veerman
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Tony at DGgames US wrote:
Thank you. Engaged was our first choice.

We want an adjective and noun combination.
* Stalking Vampire and Stalker.
* Fighting Vampire and Fighter.

So
* Engaged Vampires and fiancé?




Made me laugh. 1 GG for that.
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Tony At DGG
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Quote:
What I was saying is that each of the elder's only have 1 special ability.


No-one at DGG has ever said that each elder only has 1 special ability.
 
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Ohh AWESOME.. Sorry my bad, I misinterpreted some stuff.. Okay glad to hear.. Thanks..
 
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Jonathan Gardner
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Reposting here from the KS:

I just wanted to understand the mechanics of obtaining and using Special Abilities better.

So, I can buy Special Abilities only at the end of a mission, correct? They cost those "fist" tokens to get, right?

And then you spend those "fists" each time you use the Special Ability. I assume you enter each lair with a reset level of "fists". If so, until you can kill a few vampires, your special abilities do nothing, right?

I'm just trying to understand how they work. Cause my impression is that they are more like emergency abilities rather than being special as the cost to obtain and use seem a bit high and fiddly.

I love some information that would counter that, cause I really love the premise of this game.
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Tony At DGG
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The good new is that you understand the rules correctly. We use the word Focus, not fist; I say this not to be picky, but because you will see Focus mentioned all over the game and I want you to see how the parts link together. Also, no-one can see the fist icon here.

Quote:
seem a bit high.

I am not sure why the cost seems high.

If you use a power that costs 2 Focus to destroy a Vampire that gives you 2 Focus as the reward, there is no change to your total Focus. There are powers that cost 1 Focus and Vampires that give 3 Focus; and actions that generate Focus without you spending any.

The game was balanced going into the Kickstarter and we will re-balance the game after the Kickstarter, once all the Hunts and all the stretch goals are known.

Quote:
seem a bit ... fiddly.

Many games have in-game currency, tracked with game components, that is gained and spent. Many games have several (rock, wood, gold). Games where the main emphasis is using the currency can be more complex - Abyss, a favorite in my gaming circles, has two different currency systems with 6 different types.

We have one currency, Focus, which is used for many purposes. This is specifically designed to make you trade off choices against each other, and we believe it forces you to play more strategically.
Sorry if this seems fiddly; I must admit it does force you to think about your actions more than some recent mini-based dungeon crawlers. We are not trying to make a move-attack-search game, many good examples are already on the market.

Quote:
more like emergency abilities rather than being special

You have understood the rules, so the words are not getting in the way of your understanding. We used special to mean the opposite of general; these are not rules defined in the rule book but stated on cards. I cannot quite say all the abilities and effects are unique, but that is close to true. These powers make the Hunters different from each other and allow you to customize them ... to make them special.

Emergency implies that these powers will only be used rarely, at times of dire need. Certainly, you could play that way, for example if you are specifically trying to carry a lot of Focus into the Downtime. But since Focus is readily available, we would not want to imply this is the only way to play.


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Michał Misztal
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I just saw a Vampire Bat's special ability. Is there a limit for how many times this ability (or similar abilities of vampires)is used in a row? For example, if a Giant Bat causes a wound -> attacks all hunters in its area -> causes another wound, does it atack all Hunters in the area again, making it possible to attack until all Hunters in its area are dead? I see no rules clarifying it.
 
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Jonathan Gardner
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First, thank you so much for taking the time to respond!

Quote:
I am not sure why the cost seems high. Emergency implies that these powers will only be used rarely, at times of dire need.


Well, let's say that I bring 4 Hunters into a lair. And the total available Focus that can be gained in that lair is 60, assuming we kill every possible target, which may or may not happen to achieve the objective. That's an average of 15 per Hunter. I have seen examples of Special Abilities that cost 2 and 3 for each activation. Meaning that ability can only be used a very limited number of times. Which is where I got the impression that these are Emergency powers.

Quote:
seem a bit ... fiddly.


To clarify, it seemed off to me that you have to save enough Focus to buy the Special Ability outside of gameplay and then have to pay each time you use the power. It's the idea that Special Abilities are limited in use by a resource that is obtained by killing or achieving objectives, rather than just a level progression or a "cool down" or when you roll a 6.


Additionally, let's say I have saved up some Focus and bought the super awesome Special Ability that perfectly fits my Hunter. When I walk into the next Lair, that Ability is not an option. I don't yet have Focus.

On the flip side, it looks like the Vampires have Special Abilities that trigger on events, dice rolls, etc. that they can use over and over when those circumstances apply. Yet the Hunters have to pay to use them each time.
 
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You may call me
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orionpeace wrote:
On the flip side, it looks like the Vampires have Special Abilities that trigger on events, dice rolls, etc. that they can use over and over when those circumstances apply. Yet the Hunters have to pay to use them each time.


AIs in co-ops have to be difficult and this is one way to achieve it. Thematically, you're fighting supernatural beings that should be more powerful than you.

It's not PvP where another player is getting an unfair advantage against you.
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Tony At DGG
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Quote:
I just saw a Vampire Bat's special ability. Is there a limit for how many times this ability is used in a row?

A lot of the wording will be tightened up, don't worry. We have a lot of play testing to do!
Our goal will be to make the cards stand alone, but if we need to, we'll have FAQ sections in the manual to explain the ones where there's not enough space on the card to say everything we need to.
 
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