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Subject: Run Away? rss

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Nick Wirtz
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Okay, originally this was going to be a question of how Run Away's "any time" actually worked, but then I read the errata in the FAQ and... does anyone actually use this?

It seems like maybe 90% of what it does is add memento mori and trigger some bad random hunt events, since it can't be used to avoid anything you know is coming (i.e. oh, a survivor's about to get killed, time to gamble on fleeing), and it's a pretty big gamble to avoid something possibly bad happening.

So, since it's been errata'd to only be used during a survivor's act (which also seems to ignore using it at all during the hunt)... that basically just leaves running away from something tougher than you intended to fight, which consists of: nemesis encounters; fights you chose poorly; the very rare random event that makes a monster dramatically harder than what you expected.

Is there something I'm missing?
 
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Thomas Patrick
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Your current understanding of when it's good to use it is also my understanding. It seems very helpful in those limited instances, but not a general tool to be used willy nilly.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Well, basically yes...
but:
1. During the Hunt Phase:
(assuming the errata refers to "Survivor's Act" as "Survivor's Act during Showdown Phase and as Event Revealer during Hunt Phase")
I mainly use it to TRY to avoid the +Damage to the White Lion or to avoid that L3 monsters (especially Antelopes) leave the Hunt Board (and so, trigger Starvation). You cannot use it to interrupt a bad roll on a Hunt Event, though.

2. During the Showdown Phase:
Like you said, it is mainly used when two good guys die against the Kingsman and you suddendly notice that he will kill the other two next turn, so you escape. Of course, you can also try to use it "strategically" (using the term somewhat liberally here) to just try to put some distance between you and the monster.

Anyway, I think the errata was placed there because you could use that in exploiting ways (ie. to get out of range of attacks while a monster performs them)
 
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Nick Wirtz
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So, assuming that interpretation, how do you use it during the hunt to avoid events?
 
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Kain
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
So, assuming that interpretation, how do you use it during the hunt to avoid events?

I would assume if one event just screwed your party to brink of death. You would then elect not to pursue another event or the hunt, and bail out. Which in turn will help avoid a devastating loss.
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Nick Wirtz
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Alessio's example was avoiding a monster having triggered starvation, which sounds exactly like interrupting a bad thing.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yes, I was agreeing
 
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Nick Wirtz
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I guess my confusion is, what's the difference between a bad hunt event card and a bad hunt event roll that makes one something you can run from and the other not?
 
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Drake Coker
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The errata (which was needed) definitely left the Hunt phase use inadequately described. FWIW, I play it that you can run after reading an event but before acting on it, or after resolving it, but not "while" resolving it. I don't think I've ever run before the event, but I have bailed out on a hunt once or twice afterwards.
 
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Matt Onyx
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I would say it could be used after resolving an event/before revealing a new one. Once you know what an event is, i'd say it's too late - even if it would be devastating.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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In that case, it's borderline useless in the Hunt Phase.
 
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Matt Onyx
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t3clis wrote:
In that case, it's borderline useless in the Hunt Phase.

Lost half your party? Not to worry, the others can try too return home instead of facing a suicidal hunt.
Had your armor points shredded by a hunt event? Run away!
Found a rare resource before the showdown, and want to guarantee it gets back safe?
You get the point here. Lots of use.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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No, it's pretty useless.

10% chance dead
20% chance if you don't have survival (likely, if things have gone bad enough you're rolling on this table) dead
20% chance if the other survivors run (which is probably what you intended) or die (which isn't, but you're still forced to once you commit), dead. Otherwise, you get to the fight you didn't want to.
-->30-50% chance dead

4-8% reroll that kills you
4-8% chance permanent injury and 2nd re-roll
8% permanent injury + escape
30% chance of escape with minor or no injury

So, more like...

Quote:
Lost half your party? Not to worry, the others can try to roll ~7+ or die instead of facing a suicidal hunt.
Had your armor points shredded by a hunt event? Roll a ~7+ to get away! You can also come back to the same fight!
Found a rare resource before the showdown, and want a ~50/50 chance the gear and survivor's lost instead of sticking out the fight while hiding?


Those aren't really odds I like.

I'd put my odds on a couple survivors basically hiding or bowing out of the fight early to hide even in a pretty tough fight, over rolling on the run table.
 
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Matt Onyx
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And that's completely you're prerogative, but not everyone wants to power play this and run the numbers. Some of us enjoy it more for the game itself than trying explicitly oo win.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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The problem in that is that I personally don't get satisfaction in just trying a chance I really have no power over - if you remove the flavor, it is exactly like spending two hours rolling dice and getting pleasured by the results.

There are games where you counterweight your odds before trying something risky (a great example: Blood Bowl), and even if chance plays a great part, the result is still something that you can influence in some way (re-rolls usually win the day in these games), because strategy is foremost.

If you say: "either you turn this card or roll this die", I do not know nothing about the outcome. Hell, if the deck has 10 cards in it, that's exactly like "roll a d10 on this table or a d10 on this other table". We all love, respect and owe Gary Gygax a great deal, but nobody in his senses can say he played the Tomb of Horrors and liked it. Maybe they tried it for fun and giggles ( ), maybe they lost a bet, but NOBODY is happy with just seeing dice rolling.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Ok, I want to edulcorate my previous sentence: maybe someone likes to see dice rolling, but my point was that if you want to be involved in the results, you should at least know your choices. Otherwise, you can just roll another dice before: "1-5 I turn the card, 6-10 I try to run away".

That is, obviously, besides the point that if you run away with everyone you lose a year.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Matt- it's not hard math- you can look at it and, without multiplying, figure out that you're talking about under a 50/50 success rate in most cases.

I agree that there's a point at which number crunching takes fun out of a system, but, case in point: survival of the fittest.

I don't see why you'd run away when you're comparing the rest of a hunt/showdown and all of the randomizers involved there (plus, frankly., all the action) vs. a single bad-odds roll to avoid death. I don't see how that would be enjoyable to play, interesting to try, worth it to gamble, or even flavorful or w/e within the system. In short, I guess I don't understand what "enjoy it more for the game itself" could mean. I enjoy beating up monsters with style. I enjoy struggling through hard fights and maybe clawing out a victory or maybe getting wrecked since we didn't have quite the skill or luck. I don't enjoy a randomizer determining the outcome of the fight, without choice.
 
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