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Subject: Legend 5: How the heck do you beat this with 2?!? rss

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9 tries, 9 losses. Various combinations of wizard, warrior, and dwarf. The first few, I had misunderstood how the dragon battle worked -- but I doubt it would've been close even if I did have it right! I almost always run out of time: cannot clear the castle without hitting the N token (damn farmers!!). If I do clear the castle, the board is pretty empty and the extra farmers aren't required. But I needed the kills to get the gold to pump my strength ... SO FRUSTRATING!!
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Lucas Hedgren
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It just so happens I was trying this same thing recently, with low success. But, there is hope.

I randomly picked Fenn and Bragor. But, I certainly don't think they are optimal.

The dragon is strength 30, and I did the math before I found threads here about what he is likely to roll. 45% he rolls a 12, and about 25% he rolls a 20. So, realistically, you need to bring about 45-50 total strength to the final battle.

If you max out the strength of the 2 heroes, that is 24. Then have Prince Thorald and the Dwarves, for 8 more. If Prince Thorald is gone, hopefully he lured the dragon to the tower, for +2. The runestones are a must for your weaker rolling hero, for about 10 more. So, that is 42, plus one heroes roll who could use a helmet (but only if its the Warrior, otherwise just buying strength is better) and/or Witch's potion and/or herbs. So, doable.

I think you need both heroes to clear out the castle, since the bad guys are rolling black dice, which means both need bows if they don't have them. With that strategy, and giving up on the 2 farthest away farmers, you can clear the castle with enough time to do all the rest, but just barely. Make sure to calculate how many monsters will get to the castle, and only clear what is necessary. If you can, beat Skralls or Trolls (who don't roll black dice, btw) to get more money for strength.

Ill keep trying, and report back if I am successful.
Good luck!
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Mark Yang
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I have never been successful with Legend 5, even with four players. It's very challenging. Since it was the last legend, I just decided to stop, and play other games. Maybe I'll try again in the future.
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Joe Macfarland

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Probably you've already seen this, but here's an earlier thread with a discussion of how to win Legend 5. The link also includes earlier links on the same subject.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1359550/lelgend-5

I've lost Legend 5 several times and won only once, and then narrowly. As with all legends, don't kill too many monsters because it causes you to run out of time; kill barely enough to keep the castle free. In many legends, we would kill the gors, avoid higher strength monsters, and focus on completing the relevant mission. With this legend, we reversed this practice: we let the gors go as often as possible, took on strong monsters in order to gain higher rewards, i.e., gold, and used it all on strength points: no witches brew, etc. And we got a little bit lucky.

Legends of Andor: Journey to the North has similar harrowing challenges. For a while I skipped Legend 5, played some scenarios in Journey to the North. This cleared the head a little.

Good luck!
 
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Joe Macfarland

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Of course, if you are only two players, you could play with four heroes, just to vary the conditions. (We lost playing with two, and won playing with four.)
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Harv Veerman
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jmac wrote:
Of course, if you are only two players, you could play with four heroes, just to vary the conditions. (We lost playing with two, and won playing with four.)


It took me 10+ tries before I could win this, but in the end I managed to kill the beast three times now. (Mind you, that could very well be 3 out of 30).

All three times It was done with just 2 heroes though. I never killed it with more than two. Then again, you need a touch of luck with this one.
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I've only played this legend twice, and won on the second try, which is possibly why I haven't been back to it yet.

I've played through the entire game using the warrior and the mage, so it's certainly possible.

Remember that it's not about keeping monsters out of the castle, so much as deciding which monsters you don't have to kill. There's room in the castle.

If you can't get farmers to the castle, at least try to get them out of the way, if feasible. Then you might be able to get them to the castle later.

Get all the allies you can on the dragon.

Hope the dragon doesn't RNG you to death in the final battle.

Again, the core strategy is the same. Control the flow of monsters, while trying to build up enough dice and luck mitigation to take on the BS dragon.
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Jon Olsén
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I have only played it once with two heroes and manage to beat it on the first try.
Using Warrior and Mage. Give runes and a bow to mage and a helmet + a potion to the warrior. Hopefully the helmet kicks in for a lot of damage so the potion is for backup when the helm is not working well.
Get the dragon next to the tower using the prince, didn't have time to attack it before it attacked him.
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Thanks, all! I guess I forgot about the troll ... I've been rolling 2 black dice for them! No wonder hey we're so tough! With the right rule, it should be easier to kill them and accumulate gold to buy more strength!
 
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boomtron wrote:
It just so happens I was trying this same thing recently, with low success. But, there is hope.

I randomly picked Fenn and Bragor. But, I certainly don't think they are optimal.

The dragon is strength 30, and I did the math before I found threads here about what he is likely to roll. 45% he rolls a 12, and about 25% he rolls a 20. So, realistically, you need to bring about 45-50 total strength to the final battle.

If you max out the strength of the 2 heroes, that is 24. Then have Prince Thorald and the Dwarves, for 8 more. If Prince Thorald is gone, hopefully he lured the dragon to the tower, for +2. The runestones are a must for your weaker rolling hero, for about 10 more. So, that is 42, plus one heroes roll who could use a helmet (but only if its the Warrior, otherwise just buying strength is better) and/or Witch's potion and/or herbs. So, doable.

I think you need both heroes to clear out the castle, since the bad guys are rolling black dice, which means both need bows if they don't have them. With that strategy, and giving up on the 2 farthest away farmers, you can clear the castle with enough time to do all the rest, but just barely. Make sure to calculate how many monsters will get to the castle, and only clear what is necessary. If you can, beat Skralls or Trolls (who don't roll black dice, btw) to get more money for strength.

Ill keep trying, and report back if I am successful.
Good luck!

Yeah, I hadn't been able to reliably kill enough fast enough to pump both my guys to max strength. Fixing my troll rules error should help. I also had games where the wrong bridge would be closed, making travel to get the dwarves and/or reach dragon were very difficult.
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jmac wrote:
Of course, if you are only two players, you could play with four heroes, just to vary the conditions. (We lost playing with two, and won playing with four.)

I prefer playing my co-op games solo, so it'll just be 2 characters!
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Malama wrote:
I have only played it once with two heroes and manage to beat it on the first try.
Using Warrior and Mage. Give runes and a bow to mage and a helmet + a potion to the warrior. Hopefully the helmet kicks in for a lot of damage so the potion is for backup when the helm is not working well.
Get the dragon next to the tower using the prince, didn't have time to attack it before it attacked him.

I did get pretty unlucky in a game or two, repeatedly rolling doubles for the monsters and not for me!
 
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So here's the update with me FINALLY playing with the correct rules!

YAY, I won! It still took me 3 tries (warrior, wizard) but:
#1: very close; got pretty unlucky and had a LOT of gor in the castle in a way that seemed unavoidable.
#2: I had too many of everything in the castle! I aborted around letter J since killing them all would have pushed me past N (didn't have gems or poison)
#3: SUCCESS!! Of course, it did happen on the last hour of the last day, and depended on getting some lucky rolls (I was pumped to 13 and 14 strength but had neither dwarves nor the Prince). And having only a few monsters in the castle early certainly helped, too. Wow, this is tough!
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Joe Macfarland

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Winning on the "last hour of the last day,"... that's what this game is all about. Bravo.
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We enjoy not moving the white narrator when we kill a monster in the castle. That has helped us win.
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A.J. Porfirio
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Played this tonight and rolled right through it until I got to the dragon... Bragor kinda sucks in this one since he can't where a helm. Between him and Brenn I had 20 Strength points, Brenn had the runes and Bragor had a potion. With the Dragon starting at 30 and guaranteed a 40 or more after rolling it was all but impossible to score a hit. The prince is immediately removed when the dragon comes to his space so those points are gone. I can't see the +2 from the tower making that much of a difference and I did not have time to get the dwarves.

Does this one require certain characters to give you any chance with 2p?
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vanrydergames wrote:
Played this tonight and rolled right through it until I got to the dragon... Bragor kinda sucks in this one since he can't where a helm. Between him and Brenn I had 20 Strength points, Brenn had the runes and Bragor had a potion. With the Dragon starting at 30 and guaranteed a 40 or more after rolling it was all but impossible to score a hit. The prince is immediately removed when the dragon comes to his space so those points are gone. I can't see the +2 from the tower making that much of a difference and I did not have time to get the dwarves.

Does this one require certain characters to give you any chance with 2p?

I haven't played this in a while, but the character combo you choose certainly can affect your chances! Lucas's post above has some good points, especially the last one (for me, at least -- I played many games wrong!)
boomtron wrote:
If you can, beat Skralls or Trolls (who don't roll black dice, btw) to get more money for strength.
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I'm not sure who Brenn is, but you should've given Bragor the runes because he can't use a helm.
 
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piman wrote:
I'm not sure who Brenn is, but you should've given Bragor the runes because he can't use a helm.


Both characters are from the 5-6 player expansion.
Brenn has 3 special items he can use but a max of 10 Strength points and 2 dice (so giving the runes to Bragor would have been a marginal benefit at best. It kinda sucks that you can be virtually doomed in this game sometimes if you don't have the right characters. It is possible to win with these characters but only very very slim chance given your max strength is 24 and the Dragon starts at 30 (+10 min). So rolls of 16 or less are worthless. I guess stocking up on potions is a must and just hope for the best.

And it isn't really fun to roll OVER and OVER hoping for such long odds.
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Several "marginal benefits" has the result of a big benefit, and finding those marginal benefit synergies is the whole strategy of the game. "Giving" Bragor the runes more likely means getting him to the runes, which also lets him stop by more wells, leaving you more money. With Fenn's help you can also avoid wasting time in the fog, getting WP and wineskins sooner.

I agree Fenn is not a great character for legend 5, since he simply cannot hit hard which is what's needed at the end. At the same time, I don't see this as a problem with the game. 10C2 is 45 (and next month 14C2 is 91); there's no real flexibility lost if they're not perfectly even on all legends. I can't think of any hero-driven game where all parties are equally viable.

Beating Tarok is difficult with this party, but as you made one obvious mistake, plus another one by discounting the +2 (the dragon's attack rolls have big discrete dropoffs, so in an absolute sense it doesn't seem like much, but it can get you over the next ledge), I wouldn't write off the possibility yet.
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piman wrote:
Several "marginal benefits" has the result of a big benefit, and finding those marginal benefit synergies is the whole strategy of the game. "Giving" Bragor the runes more likely means getting him to the runes, which also lets him stop by more wells, leaving you more money. With Fenn's help you can also avoid wasting time in the fog, getting WP and wineskins sooner.

I agree Fenn is not a great character for legend 5, since he simply cannot hit hard which is what's needed at the end. At the same time, I don't see this as a problem with the game. 10C2 is 45 (and next month 14C2 is 91); there's no real flexibility lost if they're not perfectly even on all legends. I can't think of any hero-driven game where all parties are equally viable.

Beating Tarok is difficult with this party, but as you made one obvious mistake, plus another one by discounting the +2 (the dragon's attack rolls have big discrete dropoffs, so in an absolute sense it doesn't seem like much, but it can get you over the next ledge), I wouldn't write off the possibility yet.


You can't assume what the texture of the game was as you are doing. Brenn 's starting position (space 72) made it such that he was the one to pick up the runes and sure I could have traded them to Bragor which ok is a very minor mistake but I am telling you it would not have mattered.

Not to mention the castle started with 6 monsters in it. And the wells got destroyed by the dragon so I only got to use them for a few rounds.

Bragor started in the fog and had the telescope so was able to clean up in there quite easily.

Anyway, I don't disagree with you on your general notion that it would be dumb for the scenarios to all be balanced to the same difficulty, and I have now learned the hard lesson that certain characters will be better than others for certain legends. Still love the game.
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Is Brenn Fenn's name in some other language, or just a really persistent typo?
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piman wrote:
Is Brenn Fenn's name in some other language, or just a really persistent typo?


It very well could be the latter and I am remembering the name wrong...
 
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