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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you buy Shield Agents? rss

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Nick Sephton
United Kingdom
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I looked through the rules and forum and I can't find this anywhere. We were playing last night and my friend ended up with 5 cards in his deck, due to multiple effects that trashed cards. He only had 2 money in his whole deck. Can he buy Shield Agents to ensure he still gets to play, or is he just screwed?
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Josh Worley
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No, you are stuck with the 8 starting SHIELD Agent cards. Your only hope would be a potential 1 or 2 cost card coming up that gave recruit so that you could potentially then buy some higher cost card in later turns.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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He couldn't buy a SHIELD Officer for 3 recruit?
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Nathan Bergom
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"Sometimes it would be nice to be wrong about people." -Commander Samuel Vimes
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okami31 wrote:
He couldn't buy a SHIELD Officer for 3 recruit?

Nope. Because

TheBigFish wrote:
He only had 2 money in his whole deck.



I'm really curious how this whole situation came about. Was it Mastermind/Villain effects, or did this player just get a hold of something like a couple copies of Punisher's Boom Goes the Dynamite right off the bat and went nuts?
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Scott Wheelock
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I've done this before, by getting too excited about KOing my starting cards, but failing to recruit any +Recruit cards. It's only happened once, and it was pretty funny in retrospect.

You kind of have to have the perfect storm to have this happen, but it's part of the game. Know what's in your deck and what you need to make it work.
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Nick Sephton
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I don't remember exactly what happened, but the majority of the problem came from two Juggernauts appearing super-early (and basically before we could deal with them.)

Honestly though, why can't you just buy Shield Agents? It's not like it's a good thing...

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That happened to me once, I ended up getting around it by fighting a villain that gave me cash and I was able to buy a maria hill.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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Never happened to me in that extreme but I have gotten crazy koing shield agents and found myself unable to buy uncommons and rares because I went full-attack.

Try always to get a SHIELD Officer for each two shield agents you KO, or just KO a trooper, because you can get better attack later on, with the recruit you are saving up.

In the OP's case, not even Sidekicks could've saved him.
 
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Atnier Rodriguez
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nbergom wrote:
okami31 wrote:
He couldn't buy a SHIELD Officer for 3 recruit?

Nope. Because

TheBigFish wrote:
He only had 2 money in his whole deck.



I'm really curious how this whole situation came about. Was it Mastermind/Villain effects, or did this player just get a hold of something like a couple copies of Punisher's Boom Goes the Dynamite right off the bat and went nuts?


But not everything happened at once.

Even with two Juggies coming out back to back on 2nd and 3rd turn (because 1st turn he wouldn't have had cards in discard pile), he would have lost 4 agents out of 8 agents, leaving him with 4 recruit.

Other stuff must have happened due to the player not aware he was becoming a recruit pauper fast.
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Nathan Bergom
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TheBigFish wrote:
I don't remember exactly what happened, but the majority of the problem came from two Juggernauts appearing super-early (and basically before we could deal with them.)

Honestly though, why can't you just buy Shield Agents? It's not like it's a good thing...


Yeah, that could do it. Good gravy, if the first two cards from the villain deck were Juggernauts (I think there are two?), they could easily both escape and everyone's down eight cards.

I would think that technically, Shield Agents aren't available for purchase because they start out in players' decks. If the Agents are KO'd, they're still unavailable, just like stronger KO'd heroes.

At the end of the day, though, it's your game. If the players agree that if something weird like this happens, it's acceptable to buy one Agent to get up to 3 Recruit to get a Maria Hill, go for it.
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Nick Sephton
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okami31 wrote:
Even with two Juggies coming out back to back on 2nd and 3rd turn (because 1st turn he wouldn't have had cards in discard pile), he would have lost 4 agents out of 8 agents, leaving him with 4 recruit.

Other stuff must have happened due to the player not aware he was becoming a recruit pauper fast.


They didn't come out on the first turn, they just came out early. He had other fight cards in his deck, but the Juggernauts took 8 cards from him, which accounted for almost all of his money. He'd KOed some Agents already, because he'd replaced them with Officers or better, but these all got caught by the Juggernauts and something from the scheme or Mastermind (I forget which ones they were.)

Basically it was just unlucky that the Jugs (and whatever scheme/Mastermind) ripped all of his money cards away. My deck was small too, but I was luckier with what remained.

Anyhow, it's pointless arguing over how we got there, because we did get there! The real question is - "Why can't we buy Shield Agents?". We implemented this as a house rule for that game, because there is really no good reason why you shouldn't be able to, and it's pretty standard in most deck building games.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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TheBigFish wrote:
okami31 wrote:
Even with two Juggies coming out back to back on 2nd and 3rd turn (because 1st turn he wouldn't have had cards in discard pile), he would have lost 4 agents out of 8 agents, leaving him with 4 recruit.

Other stuff must have happened due to the player not aware he was becoming a recruit pauper fast.


They didn't come out on the first turn, they just came out early. He had other fight cards in his deck, but the Juggernauts took 8 cards from him, which accounted for almost all of his money. He'd KOed some Agents already, because he'd replaced them with Officers or better, but these all got caught by the Juggernauts and something from the scheme or Mastermind (I forget which ones they were.)

Basically it was just unlucky that the Jugs (and whatever scheme/Mastermind) ripped all of his money cards away. My deck was small too, but I was luckier with what remained.

Anyhow, it's pointless arguing over how we got there, because we did get there! The real question is - "Why can't we buy Shield Agents?". We implemented this as a house rule for that game, because there is really no good reason why you shouldn't be able to, and it's pretty standard in most deck building games.


It's not arguing as much as being exploratory.

Maybe there were rule mistakes or bad strategy choices or simply bad luck.

As for your variant rule, sure we all play with variant rules, but this is not that common of a case, so consider it an aberration of sorts and see if trying to figure out the system would be more rewarding than just outright "fixing" it.

But hey, whichever way is more fun for you, go ahead.

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Atnier Rodriguez
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Additionally, if real bad luck happens, like a bad shuffle leading to scheme twist after scheme twist with no respite, consider a "reset" and restart the game with a vigorous shuffle to all piles.
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Nick Sephton
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okami31 wrote:

Maybe there were rule mistakes or bad strategy choices or simply bad luck.


There were definitely bad strategy choices and bad luck. Not really relevant though, as you shouldn't really be able to "break" a game like this just through being a bit sucky at it (it was his first game, and he actually played pretty well after re-buying Agents.)

We'll be maintaining the Shield Agents as buyable cards, because honestly there is no reason not to. You'd only buy them in this specific situation, and they fix it with no cost to the game.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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TheBigFish wrote:
okami31 wrote:

Maybe there were rule mistakes or bad strategy choices or simply bad luck.


There were definitely bad strategy choices and bad luck. Not really relevant though, as you shouldn't really be able to "break" a game like this just through being a bit sucky at it (it was his first game, and he actually played pretty well after re-buying Agents.)

We'll be maintaining the Shield Agents as buyable cards, because honestly there is no reason not to. You'd only buy them in this specific situation, and they fix it with no cost to the game.


You do find some combination of Mastermind, Villains and Schemes that are a pain in the ass in the fun-sucking way, and I stay from them.

One of my friends' first play was an unfortunate session against the Legacy Virus and Hulk happily giving everybody wounds.

I don't think I've played that scheme ever again on purpose.

I do like Hulk, but I reinforce his wound-machine persona to every player before we tackle the puzzle.
 
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Atnier Rodriguez
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For how much are you going to buy them?

2 recruit?
 
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Chris Lawson
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Yateley
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okami31 wrote:
For how much are you going to buy them?

2 recruit?

They have a big Zero printed on the card so that would suggest the price. Plus, the whole point is that you should be able to purchase a card with recruit on it no matter how much you might have.
 
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David A
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Bad luck can always happen, but there's a key thing here that came right to my mind and I've only seen one mention of it out of all the comments here:

Don't forget you can KO S.H.I.E.L.D. troopers too -- it's almost always easier to get those "lost" Attack Points than it is to get the Recruit Points from the Agents. My rule of thumb is to KO a Trooper for every 2 Agents. I find it helps keep a balance.

Chalk this one bad luck case to a learning experience.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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xris wrote:
okami31 wrote:
For how much are you going to buy them?

2 recruit?

They have a big Zero printed on the card so that would suggest the price. Plus, the whole point is that you should be able to purchase a card with recruit on it no matter how much you might have.


But what stops you from getting infinite amount of shield agents and troopers for 0 cost?

Also, forgive me for misunderstanding the tone, but if I'm annoying you with these questions, I can leave you be.
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Chris Lawson
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okami31 wrote:
But what stops you from getting infinite amount of shield agents and troopers for 0 cost?

That's a valid point but since we are talking house rules it would mean we just have to define what the house rule is.

Maybe just like Sidekicks, you can only purchase one SHIELD Agent (or one SHIELD Trooper) for 0 recruit.
okami31 wrote:
Also, forgive me for misunderstanding the tone, but if I'm annoying you with these questions, I can leave you be.

This is the Rules forum, so it seems fair to ask the question "Can you buy Shield Agents?"

As per the rules, it seems there is no provision to purchase SHIELD Agents or SHIELD Troopers. Hence the house rules.
 
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Erik Syvertsen
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But there's no provision to buy them for a reason.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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paradoxes wrote:
But there's no provision to buy them for a reason.


True.

This game has many connections within its pieces. You think a simple fix to a one cog is not going to matter but it might have "hidden" repercussions in the whole experience.

Having limitless amount of SHIELD characters will influence SHIELD-heavy characters such as Nick Fury and Cap 75th characters.

Not too mention boosting heroes that deal with KOs (more cheap characters to KO w/o punishment), low cost cards (0-cost), amount of cards in the KO pile (non-grey vs grey), etc, and that's without considering every single mastermind and scheme that might be affected by the always-on option of getting a free character per turn.
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Adelin Dumitru
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It is relevant how you got to that situations. It could sheld light on whether the game is broken or you and your friends made some mistakes. I have been once in a similar situation,ending up with 1 card. It was mainly my fault, and I suppose something similar happened here too. Yeah, 2 Juggernauts could take from you 8 cards, but this happens in over 5-6 turns. Meanwhile, there would habe been plenty of time to buy Maria Hills. Sorry, but it was the players' fault.
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Adelin Dumitru
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Ultimately, you can customize the game as you wish. But if you can recruit heroes that are not available, why not put aside the rares of other heroes you do not use in that game, just in case? Think about it, with 10 rares who is going to stand a chance against you??
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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This situation happened to me once, too. I KO'd SHIELD Agents every opportunity I was given and I got down to a 5 or 6 card deck with no chance of buying anything else. Our setup just happened to be one where KO'ing was available often. We all laughed and it never happened to me again. I realized that I shouldn't just KO starting cards at every possible opportunity. Since then, in games with lots of KO'ing opportunities, I try to keep track of how much purchasing power I have in my deck and I don't let it get too low if I can help it.
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