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Subject: What "Make America Great Again" means rss

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Steve Cates
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Boaty McBoatface
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So America is as great as it was in 1965, my god that's bad.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Not much text or your own opinion but good solid data so there you go.

However, keep in mind that a logarithmic scale is more correct given the exponential nature of inflation and population growth.

For example, in 1960 the population was half what it is now. So you'd expect student loans to be double (ignoring demographic corrections) just from population increase alone.

I agree on the debt. however I disagree on the fix. For example, I favor reducing social security insurance payouts for people who don't need them (annual retirement income over $100,000).

So convert those graphs to "rates per 100,000 citizens" and they'll be more meaningful.
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When in doubt, choose a graph scale that works for you.
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Love how that home ownership graph makes it look like the rate has plummeted, when in fact it went from less than 69% to 65.4%.
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Josh
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It means charts?
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Chapel
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wifwendell wrote:
Love how that home ownership graph makes it look like the rate has plummeted, when in fact it went from less than 69% to 65.4%.


Plus the graph goes from peak housing bubble and legal sub-prime lending, to post sub-prime crash.



So was America "great" when banks were giving anyone with a pulse a home loan, even if they couldn't afford it?
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Steven Woodcock
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maxo-texas wrote:


I agree on the debt. however I disagree on the fix. For example, I favor reducing social security insurance payouts for people who don't need them (annual retirement income over $100,000).


The deal was "you get a payment when you retire in exchange" NOT " you get a payment if we decide you 'need' it when you retire in exchange". At the very least in order to avoid infringing on the Takings Clause you'd have to provide a flat payout of collected monies (which I suspect most folks would take -- I would).

Totally concur with changing the deal going forward, though it'll take time to work this out of the system. Or getting rid of SSN entirely...personally I feel it should be optional.



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Carl Parsons
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Some people are interested in discussing the numbers and what they really mean. Other people are interested in dismissing that nuance and making it a black or white partisan issue.
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Christopher Seguin
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The one that jumped out at me was the Labor Force Participation. I have always found that statistic interesting, because although it shows a decline since the most recent recession, it has still continued to decline. But what isn't shown is WHY.

So, we don't know if it has declined because of an increase in retirees, if it has declined because those out of work said "fuck it" and decided not to re-enter during the recovery, if it has declined because younger people can't find jobs directly out of college, or some combination of all of those factors (along with others). And then, what are the totals behind those factors compared to each other?

It's great to see that unemployment has been low for so long, but how much of that decrease is "fake" because the denominator in the equation has gone down so quickly (and dramatically) in the last 8-10 years?
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Boaty McBoatface
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chrisnd wrote:
The one that jumped out at me was the Labor Force Participation. I have always found that statistic interesting, because although it shows a decline since the most recent recession, it has still continued to decline. But what isn't shown is WHY.

So, we don't know if it has declined because of an increase in retirees, if it has declined because those out of work said "fuck it" and decided not to re-enter during the recovery, if it has declined because younger people can't find jobs directly out of college, or some combination of all of those factors (along with others). And then, what are the totals behind those factors compared to each other?

It's great to see that unemployment has been low for so long, but how much of that decrease is "fake" because the denominator in the equation has gone down so quickly (and dramatically) in the last 8-10 years?
Well lets see.

http://www.aoa.acl.gov/Aging_Statistics/index.aspx

So you have a rising number of pensioners, and a rising number of people not looking for work, now I am not saying there is a correlation, but it's that or aliens.

Now if one of the ways to make America great is to revere this trend, and you are not going to welcome younger immigrants, well I think it's the Carrousel.
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Trey Chambers
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This person could have made a more compelling argument if they didn't twist the data to make hyperbolic graphs to the point where anyone who is paying attention will dismiss this as heavily biased.
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Christopher Seguin
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slatersteven wrote:
chrisnd wrote:
The one that jumped out at me was the Labor Force Participation. I have always found that statistic interesting, because although it shows a decline since the most recent recession, it has still continued to decline. But what isn't shown is WHY.

So, we don't know if it has declined because of an increase in retirees, if it has declined because those out of work said "fuck it" and decided not to re-enter during the recovery, if it has declined because younger people can't find jobs directly out of college, or some combination of all of those factors (along with others). And then, what are the totals behind those factors compared to each other?

It's great to see that unemployment has been low for so long, but how much of that decrease is "fake" because the denominator in the equation has gone down so quickly (and dramatically) in the last 8-10 years?
Well lets see.

http://www.aoa.acl.gov/Aging_Statistics/index.aspx

So you have a rising number of pensioners, and a rising number of people not looking for work, now I am not saying there is a correlation, but it's that or aliens.

Now if one of the ways to make America great is to revere this trend, and you are not going to welcome younger immigrants, well I think it's the Carrousel.


Dude, I already KNEW that the number of retirees is increasing - that's a no-brainer, and I don't need one specific website to show me that.

What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!
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Shadrach wrote:
It means charts?
Agreed.
If the purpose of the post was to put into words (pictures?) exactly what Trump's nebulous sloganeering means, this did not achieve the desired effect.

If anything it confirms "Make America Great Again" means whatever you want it to mean, as long as you want it to mean not voting for Hillary Clinton.
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chrisnd wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
chrisnd wrote:
The one that jumped out at me was the Labor Force Participation. I have always found that statistic interesting, because although it shows a decline since the most recent recession, it has still continued to decline. But what isn't shown is WHY.

So, we don't know if it has declined because of an increase in retirees, if it has declined because those out of work said "fuck it" and decided not to re-enter during the recovery, if it has declined because younger people can't find jobs directly out of college, or some combination of all of those factors (along with others). And then, what are the totals behind those factors compared to each other?

It's great to see that unemployment has been low for so long, but how much of that decrease is "fake" because the denominator in the equation has gone down so quickly (and dramatically) in the last 8-10 years?
Well lets see.

http://www.aoa.acl.gov/Aging_Statistics/index.aspx

So you have a rising number of pensioners, and a rising number of people not looking for work, now I am not saying there is a correlation, but it's that or aliens.

Now if one of the ways to make America great is to revere this trend, and you are not going to welcome younger immigrants, well I think it's the Carrousel.


Dude, I already KNEW that the number of retirees is increasing - that's a no-brainer, and I don't need one specific website to show me that.

What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!


More easy is just to take retirees out of the pool of statistics and display them separately. Thus, like can equal like and we don't have to account for if there are more retirees in the mix or not.

But, so many like to inflate their stats that they love adding them in to make it look more catastrophic.
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Boaty McBoatface
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chrisnd wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
chrisnd wrote:
The one that jumped out at me was the Labor Force Participation. I have always found that statistic interesting, because although it shows a decline since the most recent recession, it has still continued to decline. But what isn't shown is WHY.

So, we don't know if it has declined because of an increase in retirees, if it has declined because those out of work said "fuck it" and decided not to re-enter during the recovery, if it has declined because younger people can't find jobs directly out of college, or some combination of all of those factors (along with others). And then, what are the totals behind those factors compared to each other?

It's great to see that unemployment has been low for so long, but how much of that decrease is "fake" because the denominator in the equation has gone down so quickly (and dramatically) in the last 8-10 years?
Well lets see.

http://www.aoa.acl.gov/Aging_Statistics/index.aspx

So you have a rising number of pensioners, and a rising number of people not looking for work, now I am not saying there is a correlation, but it's that or aliens.

Now if one of the ways to make America great is to revere this trend, and you are not going to welcome younger immigrants, well I think it's the Carrousel.


Dude, I already KNEW that the number of retirees is increasing - that's a no-brainer, and I don't need one specific website to show me that.

What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!
Yes, but others do not seem to be aware of that, or they think that we need to reduce the number of retirees.

 
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Chapel
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chrisnd wrote:


What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!


I guess that answer would have to correlate why it INCREASED so dramatically in the late 70's early 80's?

Could be baby boomer vs. pre-baby boomer population.
Could be baby-boomer retiring vs. gen-x poplation.

Shoot, could be women in the workforce participation in the late 70's 80's verses today. Generational gender roles shifting?

I know my mom and dad worked full time each to make ends meet. Today, I work and my wife is stay at home, and we make ends meet. I dunno.

I'm sure a lot of complexity is involved. But you can't point to a bust after a boom and say, well, a boom should have been ever growing. Why?

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Ferretman wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:


I agree on the debt. however I disagree on the fix. For example, I favor reducing social security insurance payouts for people who don't need them (annual retirement income over $100,000).


The deal was "you get a payment when you retire in exchange" NOT " you get a payment if we decide you 'need' it when you retire in exchange". At the very least in order to avoid infringing on the Takings Clause you'd have to provide a flat payout of collected monies (which I suspect most folks would take -- I would).

Totally concur with changing the deal going forward, though it'll take time to work this out of the system. Or getting rid of SSN entirely...personally I feel it should be optional.

I don't, you already end up paying higher taxes on SS benefits if you make money beyond a certain level in retirement. Furthermore the formula for calculating benefits gives substantially lower benefits per dollar contributed for people who make more money.

No non sociopath is going to be willing to let old people starve to death in the street when they can't pay their bills. As long as people care about each other we can't have a system that doesn't provide a safety net. If we have a safety net, then we have to have taxes to pay for it.

In any case, taking away social security benefits from the wealthy wouldn't make a significant dent in the program's obligations.
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Shawn Fox
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MWChapel wrote:
chrisnd wrote:


What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!


I guess that answer would have to correlate why it INCREASED so dramatically in the late 70's early 80's?

Could be baby boomer vs. pre-baby boomer population.
Could be baby-boomer retiring vs. gen-x poplation.

Shoot, could be women in the workforce participation in the late 70's 80's verses today. Generational gender roles shifting?

I know my mom and dad worked full time each to make ends meet. Today, I work and my wife is stay at home, and we make ends meet. I dunno.

I'm sure a lot of complexity is involved. But you can't point to a bust after a boom and say, well, a boom should have been ever growing. Why?


Furthermore I'd say that lower labor force participation is a good thing as long as people are happy. Why should our goal be to produce the maximum possible economic output?
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Boaty McBoatface
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sfox wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
chrisnd wrote:


What I was hoping was that there was a chart that combined ALL of the relevant factors compared to each other as to WHY the workforce participation rate has declined so dramatically. I listed three such factors, and I am sure there are even more. You provided me a link to one website that only served the purpose of proving that one of the factors I listed is a valid factor - Thanks, Jeeves!


I guess that answer would have to correlate why it INCREASED so dramatically in the late 70's early 80's?

Could be baby boomer vs. pre-baby boomer population.
Could be baby-boomer retiring vs. gen-x poplation.

Shoot, could be women in the workforce participation in the late 70's 80's verses today. Generational gender roles shifting?

I know my mom and dad worked full time each to make ends meet. Today, I work and my wife is stay at home, and we make ends meet. I dunno.

I'm sure a lot of complexity is involved. But you can't point to a bust after a boom and say, well, a boom should have been ever growing. Why?


Furthermore I'd say that lower labor force participation is a good thing as long as people are happy. Why should our goal be to produce the maximum possible economic output?
So that people like Trump can have an extra bottle of Château la Chatalie '65 for breakfast.
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Jon Badolato
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The graph that stands out here is the median family income graph. If it is to be believed then that stat has dropped five thousand dollars in the last 12 years. And yet, I'm pretty sure cost of living in that time frame has increased.
This is not good.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jonb wrote:
The graph that stands out here is the median family income graph. If it is to be believed then that stat has dropped five thousand dollars in the last 12 years. And yet, I'm pretty sure cost of living in that time frame has increased.
This is not good.
And another graph

 
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Jon Badolato
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And since the OP uses Trumps slogan I have to ask what his plans are to correct any economic problems as I haven't heard him state concretely what he would do. The above mentioned slogan is not going to get us there without concrete plans. Seriously, has the Donald mentioned in any way how he would handle the economy ?? If he has point me to that info please.
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Andy Holt
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Clearly (!) Trump†, by saying "Make America Great Again" is claiming that America is not currently great.
How many would be voting for him if he said that explicitly?

† I nearly typo-ed that into "Turnip"
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