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Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn» Forums » Rules

Subject: Battle Resolution question rss

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Brandon Harvey
United States
Virginia
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Hey all,

I've only played this game twice so far, and we're really liking it, but we ran into an order of resolution question that I haven't been able to answer via the rulebook. The situation went like this:

- I attacked Noah's False Demon with two units (needed two because he had Bring Forth on it and I was trying to kill it).

- He blocked one of my attackers with his Phoenixborn. This brings up my first question.

1. Do these two situations ("First Unit v. False Demon" and "Second Unit v. PB blocking False Demon") technically resolve simultaneously? If not, Am I correct in assuming I determine the order of resolution?

In our fact pattern, we resolved the Second Unit first. My damage was dealt to Noah, and Noah responded with Shadow Counter. Noah applied the Shadow Counter damage to my First Unit. This brings about my second question.

2. Is my First Unit eliminated prior to the resolution of its attack upon the False Demon? It certainly sustained enough damage by the Shadow Counter to be eliminated, but it seemed like "immediately carries out its effect" (per the Reaction Spells topic in the rule book") only inherently applies to receiving damage, which would mean the attack still needs to be resolved.

3. BONUS Question: Does the answer to Question 2 change at all if the First Unit is a Seaside Raven?

Thank you for your input. The debate remained friendly, but it definitely got a bit heated, haha.

All the best!
 
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Tom
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This situation can not occur, because when a Phoenixborn chooses to block for a unit, they have to block ALL attacking units, or none.
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Brandon Harvey
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Okay, after rereading, that definitely makes a lot of sense (and I feel a bit like an idiot). Am I correct in thinking the following are distinct differences between Blocking (a Phoenixborn) and Guarding (a Unit)?

1) Units that block an attack on their Phoenixborn each only block a single attacking Unit, and the defender doesn't have to Block every attacking Unit.
2) Phoenixborns/Units with Unit Guard that Guard an attack on another Unit can only Guard singularly (even in the face of multiple attackers), and all damage is received by the Phoenixborn or Unit Guard.

Did I miss anything or get something wrong?

EDIT: This actually brings up a second issue. What about if I change the fact pattern in the following manner?

- I attacked Noah with two units.
- He Blocks one of my attackers with a False Demon.
- Say we resolve the Unit attacking Noah first. My damage was dealt to Noah, and Noah responded with Shadow Counter. Noah applies the Shadow Counter damage to the Unit being blocked. Does that (blocked) Unit still engage in and complete its battle along the lines of my initial query?

It seems as though, in that situation, I would want to resolve the Blocked Unit first, since it is "in an order of [my] choosing."

Thanks again for the quick response!
 
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Tom
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Don't feel bad, the combat in Ashes can be rather confusing. I felt free to copy the response of Scholar Maleficius in another post on this forum. All credit to him.

"Multiple attacking Phoenixborn: Resolve one at a time (attacker chooses order)
Multiple attacking guarding Phoenixborn: Resolve simultaneously
Multiple uncountered attacking a unit: Resolve simultaneously
Multiple countered attacking a unit: Resolve simultaneously, defender may split damage as they'd like

Units attacking a Phoenixborn and resolving damage. (p. 6)
One at a time, in an order of your (the attacking player's) choosing, resolve each attacking unit’s damage. Inflict an amount of damage equal to its attack value on the defending player’s Phoenixborn. Then place 1 exhaustion token on the attacking unit.

Uncountered Units attacking a Unit and resolving damage. (p. 9)
Total each of the attacking unit’s attack values and inflict that amount of damage on the target unit. Then place 1 exhaustion token on each attacking unit.

Countered Units attacking a Unit and resolving damage.(p. 9)
The attacking player’s units and the defending player’s unit are now considered to be in battle. Total each of the attacking unit’s attack values and inflict that amount of damage on the defending player’s unit. Simultaneously the defending player’s countering unit will deal an amount of damage equal to its attack value to the attacking units. If the defending player is countering multiple units, the defending player may choose how to split up her unit’s damage among the attacking units. Then place 1 exhaustion token on each unit involved in that battle that was not destroyed.

Units attacking a Phoenixborn guarding a unit and resolving damage. (p.9)
Total each attacking unit’s attack values and inflict that amount of damage to the target Phoenixborn. Then place 1 exhaustion token on each attacking unit.

Units attacking a Unit guarding a unit and resolving damage. (p.9)
Essentially the same as situations 2-3."

So in your example, the attacker (you) can choose which unit attacks first. If uou're smart, you'll probably resolve the unit before the Phoenixborn. Hope this helps.
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Giovanni Cornara
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btharveyku08 wrote:
Okay, after rereading, that definitely makes a lot of sense (and I feel a bit like an idiot). Am I correct in thinking the following are distinct differences between Blocking (a Phoenixborn) and Guarding (a Unit)?

1) Units that block an attack on their Phoenixborn each only block a single attacking Unit, and the defender doesn't have to Block every attacking Unit.
2) Phoenixborns/Units with Unit Guard that Guard an attack on another Unit can only Guard singularly (even in the face of multiple attackers), and all damage is received by the Phoenixborn or Unit Guard.

Did I miss anything or get something wrong?


That is correct.

Quote:
EDIT: This actually brings up a second issue. What about if I change the fact pattern in the following manner?

- I attacked Noah with two units.
- He Blocks one of my attackers with a False Demon.
- Say we resolve the Unit attacking Noah first. My damage was dealt to Noah, and Noah responded with Shadow Counter. Noah applies the Shadow Counter damage to the Unit being blocked. Does that (blocked) Unit still engage in and complete its battle along the lines of my initial query?

It seems as though, in that situation, I would want to resolve the Blocked Unit first, since it is "in an order of [my] choosing."

Thanks again for the quick response!


If you decide to resolve the attack on Noah first, then the damage from Shadow Counter is resolved before you get to resolve the battle between your other unit and the False Demon. If Shadow Counter (as it is likely) destroys the attacking unit, then the battle won't happen as the attacking unit is no longer in play.

As you say, you could choose to resolve the attack of the blocked unit first, as the attack happens during your turn.
 
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