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Subject: Why collectible? rss

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Richard A. Edwards
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About the collectible model of Star Wars: Destiny, game designer Lukas Litzsinger said, “We haven’t made a collectible game in years, even though many gamers enjoy this format’s aspects of discovery and trading. Star Wars: Destiny is a game that could only exist within this category, and we’re excited to reenter the collectible marketplace and start supporting fans of this genre once more.”

Two starter sets offer an entry point to your games of Star Wars: Destiny—the Kylo Ren Starter Set and the Rey Starter Set. Each of these starter sets offers a fixed set of twenty-four cards with nine premium dice, a rulesheet, and all the tokens you need for one player to begin playing. Whether you cast your fortunes with Kylo Ren and the First Order or search for truth and purpose alongside Rey, these starter sets offer the ideal starting point for you and a friend to start enjoying Destiny.

Once you’ve gotten your starter set, you’ll want to add to your forces with new events, upgrades, supports, and characters. You can find all of these by growing your collection with randomized booster packs from the Awakenings set. Each booster pack offers five cards, one of which features a corresponding premium die included in the booster pack. These randomized booster packs allow you to enter the game at your own pace and invite you to experience the thrill of discovery or search for a particularly rare card.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/29/star-wa...

What do you think about the collectible marketing model?
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Matt Steski
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Seems like a huge step backwards. FFG has been touting the superiority of the LCG model over CCGs for a decade, and... they're right. I tried to pick up some CCGs that I was interested in relatively recently, and I couldn't stand the randomized model. I hate hate hate chasing rares. I hate looking at my cards and saying "well, I would play this, but I don't have enough of them to make a playset." I hate opening pack after pack, only to find they're all useless.

I have absolutely zero interest in purchasing into such a model again.
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Matthew Saloff
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Part of me is *slightly* annoyed at the return of the collectible model, BUT I will say, against all rational thought, that part of me DOES MISS ripping open a pack, smelling that freshly printed ink, not knowing what it contains, pulling that sweet rare, trading dupes with others, etc. There's *something* to it, just at the expense of some more $$.

But it's not like we're forced to buy more than we want.
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Bobb Beauchamp
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I enjoy opening a collectible pack. I don't enjoy playing a game against an opponent that has an advantage over me because they've acquired a rare card that I haven't added to my collection yet because I can't find/afford one.

I quit playing Magic:tG years ago because of this. I've avoided other collectible games since then because of this. And I've only dabbled in Dice Masters games because I play only with my son and we pull our dice from the same pool.

So I might buy a few packs following my Dice Masters level of interest. Then again, my son isn't a very big Star Wars fan, and we have tons of other games that we want to play that we don't get enough table time with already. Including Dice Masters.

To me it seems like FFG is trying hard to squeeze every last ounce of value from their Star Wars license, and is willing to risk some of their integrity on the collectible dice market. It makes me a little worried, because arguably, FFG already has a game that covers this sector of the market. Their Star Wars LCG game lets you build a custom deck of Star Wars characters in much the same way, but without resorting to a collectible format to drive sales.

I also am leery of the idea that Destiny could not have been produced outside of a collectible format. I think FFG has proven that kind of statement wrong with their LCG model, which essentially takes the collectible format and makes it non-collectible, while retaining all of the strategic building play decisions and elements that the CCG format captures.
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Matthew Saloff
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That's all well and good, except, the Star Wars LCG just isn't that popular for some reason. I should know, it's my favorite game, and I travel to every big tournament every year. For whatever reason it just never caught on the same way as Netrunner or Game of Thrones or maybe even Conquest. The tournament attendance is just horribly disappointing at times.

So I don't really blame FFG from wanting to explore other options.

That said, the LCG will still be here (presumably) for people that don't like the blind buy.

Personally I plan to play both if Destiny has enough Strategic depth.
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Joshua Christensen
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SirRoke wrote:
About the collectible model of Star Wars: Destiny, game designer Lukas Litzsinger said, “We haven’t made a collectible game in years, even though many gamers enjoy this format’s aspects of discovery and trading. Star Wars: Destiny is a game that could only exist within this category, and we’re excited to reenter the collectible marketplace and start supporting fans of this genre once more.”


This is really funny. His statement is saying "were doing it for the gamers" but the real reason they've made it a collectable game is because Star Wars has a lot mass market appeal and this will get them more money.
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Eric Muehlberg
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Mattr0polis wrote:
That's all well and good, except, the Star Wars LCG just isn't that popular for some reason. I should know, it's my favorite game, and I travel to every big tournament every year. For whatever reason it just never caught on the same way as Netrunner or Game of Thrones or maybe even Conquest. The tournament attendance is just horribly disappointing at times....


My guess would be that it never caught on because deck building was a huge hassle and incredibly time consuming. With the other LCGs you don't have to worry about sets and can literally just throw a deck together given a few constraints. The Star Wars LCG required building decks around objectives which brought a set of cards with it to your deck. It was a neat idea, but was ultimately the biggest reason I lost interest. If the objective deck was separate like the plot deck there may have been more uptake.
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ClanNatioy wrote:
His statement is saying "were doing it for the gamers" but the real reason they've made it a collectable game is because Star Wars has a lot mass market appeal and this will get them more money.

Yes, the people who work for the company are (often rightfully) proud of their games and make them for gamers, but the company produces and markets their product to make money.

So of course they're going to try to make as much money as possible. Every company does and I don't fault FFG for that.

The question may be would they have made MORE money if Destiny was NOT collectible? Or are they right in guessing that they'll make MORE because it's collectible?

Only time and numbers will tell, but it is an interesting question.

Many old timers who have done CCGs and got burned out on that model won't touch this at all, even if they love Star Wars.

But I've been seeing posts from newer gamers who are loving the idea of a collectible game. They've never chased rares before nor thought about trading game components with others and they're excited about that idea.

Would more gamers have actually bought it if it was non-collectible? Or would those not buying have bemoaned yet another "Star Wars Cash Grab" and not touched it anyway?

I dunno. But interesting questions and I appreciate the discussion.
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professorcynical wrote:
My guess would be that it never caught on because deck building was a huge hassle and incredibly time consuming. With the other LCGs you don't have to worry about sets and can literally just throw a deck together given a few constraints. The Star Wars LCG required building decks around objectives which brought a set of cards with it to your deck. It was a neat idea, but was ultimately the biggest reason I lost interest. If the objective deck was separate like the plot deck there may have been more uptake.

I've played a lot of CCGs and every one of FFG's LCGs.

For me, Star Wars is my favorite and the EASIEST to deck build because you only have to choose 10 pods rather than select individual cards out of hundreds of mind-numbing choices.

We really like how the objective cards are connected too.

To each their own.
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professorcynical wrote:
Mattr0polis wrote:
That's all well and good, except, the Star Wars LCG just isn't that popular for some reason. I should know, it's my favorite game, and I travel to every big tournament every year. For whatever reason it just never caught on the same way as Netrunner or Game of Thrones or maybe even Conquest. The tournament attendance is just horribly disappointing at times....


My guess would be that it never caught on because deck building was a huge hassle and incredibly time consuming. With the other LCGs you don't have to worry about sets and can literally just throw a deck together given a few constraints. The Star Wars LCG required building decks around objectives which brought a set of cards with it to your deck. It was a neat idea, but was ultimately the biggest reason I lost interest. If the objective deck was separate like the plot deck there may have been more uptake.


Funny, the deck building by sets was and is one of the key features of Star Wars LCG that I think makes it stand out a bit against the "normal" deck builders. I for one really dislike the fiddly deck building of say Netrunner or LotR, even though I like both games! The set mechanic makes life really easy and even forces you to use some cards that would otherwise never see the light of day. Like that a lot.

On topic:
Maybe FFG is simply trying to attract a younger audience? My two boys literally freaked out about the CCG aspect. You know, surprising boosters, collecting and showing off, trading at school, ...

EDIT: @SirRoke
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Matthew Barille
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I love the response of a company has the right to make as much money as they can, and by love I mean hate. The biggest problem I have with it is most of the time they try to play off their greed by saying its for the benefit of someone else, when it totally is not. The collectable model is one of the worst in my opinion and why I stopped any purchase of krosmaster after season 2. Pure greed, and no, greed is not good.
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Justin Bolles
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Why collectible? Quick answer:$$$$$
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Matthew Saloff
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Falccor77 wrote:
I love the response of a company has the right to make as much money as they can, and by love I mean hate. The biggest problem I have with it is most of the time they try to play off their greed by saying its for the benefit of someone else, when it totally is not. The collectable model is one of the worst in my opinion and why I stopped any purchase of krosmaster after season 2. Pure greed, and no, greed is not good.


I'd like you to find me a game company that isn't trying to make money. They all are. At least FFG's track record has been pretty great games for the most part.

I agree with you that I'm not really a fan of the collectible model, BUT don't confuse our own personal bias for what actually works. Magic the Gathering is still stupidly popular. As is Dice Masters. As are a bunch of other collectible games I see on my travels to game stores that for whatever reason get WAY more players than many current non-collectible games. I don't understand it, but it makes money and attracts players. It's also independent of how good the actual gameplay is.
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Jason Daniels
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inaholeintheground wrote:
Why collectible? Quick answer:$$$$$


This.
And because Dicemasters has done very well.
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I kind of like the collectible aspect...
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Eric Muehlberg
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SirRoke wrote:

I've played a lot of CCGs and every one of FFG's LCGs.

For me, Star Wars is my favorite and the EASIEST to deck build because you only have to choose 10 pods rather than select individual cards out of hundreds of mind-numbing choices.

We really like how the objective cards are connected too.

To each their own.



SirWillibald wrote:

Funny, the deck building by sets was and is one of the key features of Star Wars LCG that I think makes it stand out a bit against the "normal" deck builders. I for one really dislike the fiddly deck building of say Netrunner or LotR, even though I like both games! The set mechanic makes life really easy and even forces you to use some cards that would otherwise never see the light of day. Like that a lot.


These are fair points. I was more getting at the fact that if you ever wanted to update your deck or tear it down entirely, you were sifting through cards looking for which card belongs to which pod. It is far more time consuming than simply swapping out a few cards defined by name in any other card game because a card is not exclusive to a pod in Star Wars.

I enjoyed the game, but man did I dislike the deck building. Both because it was time consuming, and because I didn't have that fine granular control that I prefer. To each his own indeed
 
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The Boilerman wrote:
inaholeintheground wrote:
Why collectible? Quick answer:$$$$$


This.
And because Dicemasters has done very well.

I'm not a fan of dicemasters. I didn't like the whole dice-building thing and the components were really cruddy. This game, on the other hand, looks amazing.
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I gave up on the collectible drug addiction years ago, mostly due to FFG's LCG format. I loved the Wizards Star Wars Minis collectible game and purchased a small fortune of those before the power creep, before the dark times.

For this Star Wars product, I'm out.

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@SWLCG Deck-Building: I maintain that the Pod System would be a really nice foundation for a digital card game, since the computer would handle the irritating parts of the system for you (squinting at little set-#s on otherwise identical cards).

RE: "Collectible Games." People enjoy them. Is it logical? Maybe not, but most sources of joy aren't. It's a product that's meant to put the FFG/Asmodee label on big box store shelves, where the LCG model doesn't go. That's why their "booster box" has the same shape as all the other big-box-store dispensers. If a few high-income "exploitative" products fund the generation of more niche-appeal, "fair", products, that wouldn't have seen the light of day if profitability was the driving factor (as most of them started off as CCGs and croaked) then hooray.

It's not like there's a paucity of non-collectible star wars games for you to play/buy.
 
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I think what hindered the Star Wars LCG somewhat was that for competitive play, you had to build two decks. Even if you didn't care about the Rebel side of things, you had to have a Rebel deck if you wanted to play in a tournament. I think that robbed the game of a little bit of faction identity that so many CCGs and LCGs have. You always hear "I'm Blue/Black" or "I'm Clan Scorpion" or "I'm Law Dogs." Star Wars lacked that sense of identification.
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At first it looked really interesting to me. Wallet, "nooooo.." Then I saw the COLLECTIBLE and said nope, heh. No more of that shite for me. shake

I thank you and my wallet thanks you, too.
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DailyRich wrote:
I think what hindered the Star Wars LCG somewhat was that for competitive play, you had to build two decks. Even if you didn't care about the Rebel side of things, you had to have a Rebel deck if you wanted to play in a tournament. I think that robbed the game of a little bit of faction identity that so many CCGs and LCGs have. You always hear "I'm Blue/Black" or "I'm Clan Scorpion" or "I'm Law Dogs." Star Wars lacked that sense of identification.


Wouldn't the same be true of Netrunner too then, as players have to build an evil Corp and Runner decks? And yet Netrunner is SUPER popular.

Genuinely curious, as I've always saw it as a bonus, that I can play good AND bad every tournament. I love TOO much of Star Wars, every part of it really. It would be too hard for me to pick just one faction or one "side".
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Isawa_Chuckles wrote:
@SWLCG Deck-Building: I maintain that the Pod System would be a really nice foundation for a digital card game, since the computer would handle the irritating parts of the system for you (squinting at little set-#s on otherwise identical cards).

RE: "Collectible Games." People enjoy them. Is it logical? Maybe not, but most sources of joy aren't. It's a product that's meant to put the FFG/Asmodee label on big box store shelves, where the LCG model doesn't go. That's why their "booster box" has the same shape as all the other big-box-store dispensers. If a few high-income "exploitative" products fund the generation of more niche-appeal, "fair", products, that wouldn't have seen the light of day if profitability was the driving factor (as most of them started off as CCGs and croaked) then hooray.

It's not like there's a paucity of non-collectible star wars games for you to play/buy.


I put my money on collectible games being popular due to the gamble. Opening a good pack feels like winning the lottery. On top of that, you can't do certain formats easily with LCGs. Game modes such as drafts and sealed events are super fun but don't really work with the LCG model.
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Xavier Domínguez
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Maybe the cost of the dice forces them to this model?
I love the lcg format, but I would be lying if I say I dont miss the collecting and trading aspect of ccgs.
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I think the collectible aspect is fantastic. I started playing Dicemasters with my little brother early this year and we've been having a blast with it. He has some friends at school that play and trade cards/dice with each other. To have a similar game set in the Star Wars universe is awesome! FFG have never disappointed when it comes to the IP in terms of theme, component quality, and gameplay. I'm really looking forward to seeing what this has to offer.
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