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Subject: Mastering the Marvellous Mysteries of the Mechanical Mat rss

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Chris Hewlett
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So I have played 6 games so far (all two player) and at least 4 have had the mechanical mat in them - in all of which, the mechanical mat has lost.

When playing with it, I find it doesn't have a strong path for me to embark on (i.e. no action that gives 3 coins). Add to this the expensive upgrade action (that provides no cash) and expensive enlist action (harder to make use of enlistment bonuses) and this board has failed to perform in my games.

Now I am not one to cry imbalanced while still being such a novice, but I thought someone out there might have some tips as to use this mat (has anyone won with it yet?)
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Chris Laudermilk
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Yup. Two games ago I won with Nords & Mechanical vs Crimeans + (IIRC) Industrial. Crimeans rushed stars & made some sub-optimal endgame moves, while I maximized what I had. I think I tried bouncing between produce & build or move as much as I could. Then I spread out a lot when it became obvious the end was nigh.

We both thought I was losing the entire game right up until the scoring was done. My last couple of production & move actions gained a lot of points, and I did far better paying attention to the building bonus. Mechanical is a tough mat to play though.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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By the way, could someone upload images of the various mats?
Would like to have a look before my next game
Thanks!

Edit : oops, found it
 
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Philip Morton
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I've won twice with Mechanical Crimeans (in a 3-player game and a 4-player game) and felt it worked really well; the margin of victory was sizeable each time, but there were some inexperienced players or experimental strategies going on for the opponents, so I'm not sure how it would do against another tuned engine.

The general path was:

* Move the character out and the second worker to the village
* Produce workers
* Trade for metal
* Produce workers (now at 8)
* Trade for metal+food
* Bolster (take a card), build Speed mech
* Move, mech drops five workers on the farm and three on the mountain, character gets the encounter

Now you can alternate Produce+Enlist and Bolster+Mech; because you've got a leftover food each time, you only need to produce three times to have enough metal/food to fill out your mechs and recruits. If the combat cards you get from the Bolster and Enlisting (the two combat cards should probably be your first enlist) aren't good, this step can be a little scary as you sit on a sizeable pile of resources across the river from a tunnel that several factions can riverwalk across.

After getting enough food/metal my usual next target is to shift most of the workers to the forest hex just outside the peninsula. You've been bolstering and haven't had to use cards for resources so far, so you shouldn't look like too juicy of a target; keeping your combat units in pairs should further deter attack if you're worried, since you should have several cards and can steal them. Wayfaring to an isolated forest might also work if going towards the middle looks too dangerous. If you can manage it maybe trade for wood first before leaving the peninsula so you can use that plus a combat card to get a building at the same time. First game my encounter had given me some wood, so I moved seven workers to the hex and had enough wood for all four structures after one produce; second game the structure-bonus was different, so I had fewer workers on the wood and had to make more use of the combat-cards-as-resources when building the structures. Alternate the move+builds with finishing out your mechs and use the attached movements to try to hit weak opponents for combat stars or position your workers for structure bonuses or something.

Ideally you finish up with combats + your fourth structure right around the time the recruit bonuses get you into the second popularity tier.

I didn't bother getting a factory card or upgrading in either game. Upgrade feels like the worst part of Mechanical, so it pairs well with Crimea starting with no oil.

I'm not sure how well it would work with other factions. I think I had a Mechanical/Nords game that went poorly, but I'm not sure how to open with Blue overall and I was also too focused on trying to do upgrades at the time. It seems to me that the key for efficiency is getting that pile of workers on a farm to let you pair enlist with produce while also accumulating the resources to do either mechs or buildings; maybe Polania could do it with structures instead of mechs?
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Chris Hewlett
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Chrondeath wrote:
I've won twice with Mechanical Crimeans (in a 3-player game and a 4-player game) and felt it worked really well; the margin of victory was sizeable each time, but there were some inexperienced players or experimental strategies going on for the opponents, so I'm not sure how it would do against another tuned engine.

The general path was:

* Move the character out and the second worker to the village
* Produce workers
* Trade for metal
* Produce workers (now at 8)
* Trade for metal+food
* Bolster (take a card), build Speed mech
* Move, mech drops five workers on the farm and three on the mountain, character gets the encounter

Now you can alternate Produce+Enlist and Bolster+Mech; because you've got a leftover food each time, you only need to produce three times to have enough metal/food to fill out your mechs and recruits. If the combat cards you get from the Bolster and Enlisting (the two combat cards should probably be your first enlist) aren't good, this step can be a little scary as you sit on a sizeable pile of resources across the river from a tunnel that several factions can riverwalk across.

After getting enough food/metal my usual next target is to shift most of the workers to the forest hex just outside the peninsula. You've been bolstering and haven't had to use cards for resources so far, so you shouldn't look like too juicy of a target; keeping your combat units in pairs should further deter attack if you're worried, since you should have several cards and can steal them. Wayfaring to an isolated forest might also work if going towards the middle looks too dangerous. If you can manage it maybe trade for wood first before leaving the peninsula so you can use that plus a combat card to get a building at the same time. First game my encounter had given me some wood, so I moved seven workers to the hex and had enough wood for all four structures after one produce; second game the structure-bonus was different, so I had fewer workers on the wood and had to make more use of the combat-cards-as-resources when building the structures. Alternate the move+builds with finishing out your mechs and use the attached movements to try to hit weak opponents for combat stars or position your workers for structure bonuses or something.

Ideally you finish up with combats + your fourth structure right around the time the recruit bonuses get you into the second popularity tier.

I didn't bother getting a factory card or upgrading in either game. Upgrade feels like the worst part of Mechanical, so it pairs well with Crimea starting with no oil.

I'm not sure how well it would work with other factions. I think I had a Mechanical/Nords game that went poorly, but I'm not sure how to open with Blue overall and I was also too focused on trying to do upgrades at the time. It seems to me that the key for efficiency is getting that pile of workers on a farm to let you pair enlist with produce while also accumulating the resources to do either mechs or buildings; maybe Polania could do it with structures instead of mechs?


Wow. That sounds like a fascinating strategy! I havent tried a big pop strategy yet so might have a go!
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Ian Liddle
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It's the only mat that pairs upgrade with trade. (trade never gives coins with a bottom row action) After you decrease your upgrade cost, you're set to pay 1 coin for a upgrade anytime you please, with no workers on / access to oil necessary.

With Rusviet you can place your upgrade star in 7 turns; that's kinda awesome.

You don't have a 3 coin option, but instead it's the only mat where you get $2 with your movement's bottom row action, so you can net $4 if you take the money instead of movement. (equivalent to producing 8 resources at the middle tier of popularity, with no risk of theft no idea what I was thinking there, besides maybe getting stuck thinking it was 3/$2, as it was for most of the testing)
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GAF Blizzard
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razordaze wrote:
You don't have a 3 coin option, but instead it's the only mat where you get $2 with your movement's bottom row action, so you can net $4 if you take the money instead of movement. (equivalent to producing 8 resources at the middle tier of popularity, with no risk of theft)

I am confused by the math on this one. If you produce 8 resources at the middle popularity tier, that's 4 pairs times $2 = $8, correct? How does that equate to $4 net? Because the produce cost of $1 + 1 popularity + 1 power is also roughly $4?
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Mathue Faulk
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
razordaze wrote:
You don't have a 3 coin option, but instead it's the only mat where you get $2 with your movement's bottom row action, so you can net $4 if you take the money instead of movement. (equivalent to producing 8 resources at the middle tier of popularity, with no risk of theft)

I am confused by the math on this one. If you produce 8 resources at the middle popularity tier, that's 4 pairs times $2 = $8, correct? How does that equate to $4 net? Because the produce cost of $1 + 1 popularity + 1 power is also roughly $4?

He's comparing end game points. If you finish the game with 8 resources at the end of the game, that's worth $4 (points) if you finish with the middle tier popularity. I actually don't follow what you're basing your equation on...

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GAF Blizzard
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mfaulk80 wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:
razordaze wrote:
You don't have a 3 coin option, but instead it's the only mat where you get $2 with your movement's bottom row action, so you can net $4 if you take the money instead of movement. (equivalent to producing 8 resources at the middle tier of popularity, with no risk of theft)

I am confused by the math on this one. If you produce 8 resources at the middle popularity tier, that's 4 pairs times $2 = $8, correct? How does that equate to $4 net? Because the produce cost of $1 + 1 popularity + 1 power is also roughly $4?

He's comparing end game points. If you finish the game with 8 resources at the end of the game, that's worth $4 (points) if you finish with the middle tier popularity. I actually don't follow what you're basing your equation on...


I'm probably missing something.

If you finish the game with 8 resources, middle popularity, each pair of resources gives you $2, correct? So 8 resources = 4 pairs = $8.
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Mathue Faulk
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:
razordaze wrote:
You don't have a 3 coin option, but instead it's the only mat where you get $2 with your movement's bottom row action, so you can net $4 if you take the money instead of movement. (equivalent to producing 8 resources at the middle tier of popularity, with no risk of theft)

I am confused by the math on this one. If you produce 8 resources at the middle popularity tier, that's 4 pairs times $2 = $8, correct? How does that equate to $4 net? Because the produce cost of $1 + 1 popularity + 1 power is also roughly $4?

He's comparing end game points. If you finish the game with 8 resources at the end of the game, that's worth $4 (points) if you finish with the middle tier popularity. I actually don't follow what you're basing your equation on...


I'm probably missing something.

If you finish the game with 8 resources, middle popularity, each pair of resources gives you $2, correct? So 8 resources = 4 pairs = $8.

No, you're right. I didn't get up and look at the board, and made the wrong assumption.

I'm not sure what his math was....
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Greg
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Middle tier scoring is basically 1 for 1 as far as resources and points.
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Troy Laurin
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I have to say that right now the mechanical board is out of favour with me.

I got mechanical the last two times I played, and struggled each time. The first saw me finish the game with a pathetic 26 points (which could have been 50-odd if I had one more turn, alas). The second at least saw me in second place with 56 coins.

First one was with the Nords, and lack of access to food was definitely the killer there, my produce action was ALWAYS sub-standard. Second one was with Polania, and I did pretty well with produce/move+build, but took too long to get back to food so I could produce+enlist/move+build, and I could only make it to the second tier of popularity because I only earned 1 popularity every 2-3 turns - not enough!
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Mechanical with Crimea looks great, at least on paper. A proposal:
1) Bolster for 1 card (-1 gold)
2) Trade for 2 oils (-1 gold), upgrade the upgrade action with the bolster/card cube
3) Bolster for 2 cards (-1 gold)
4) Trade for 1 oil + 1 metal (-1 gold), upgrade the deploy action with whatever you want (likely move)
5) Bolster for 2 cards (-1 gold), deploy mech (+2 golds)
6) Trade for 1 oil + 1 wood (-1 gold), upgrade the deploy action with whatever you want
Now Bolster + Deploy combined equals get 1 gold, 1 mech and 1 card for free. Which looks quite insane, even more for Crimea. You can continue to trade to keep on upgrading and piling up wood. Food will be produced by your (few) workers just before enlisting.
From this point, you are guaranteed to activate the bottom action every time if you want to. In other words, Crimea+Mechanical may have all actions in the game be top+bottom except 2 (1st and 3rd turn).
With such a mat, Crimea can avoid producing any additional worker. Or it can produce them all without ever facing the associated production cost.
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J
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As someone mentioned above, the top trade action is always linked to a bottom action that gives no coins on every mat. This actually makes sense. Every single bottom row action can potentially become cheap enough to cost 2 or fewer resources. Ergo if you make the action below trade cost 2 resources you can always trade directly into the bottom row action needing no other preparation other than 1 coin.

However for most boards this is a difficult feat. Every other board links their trade to an action requiring 4 resources (at start) meaning to successfully reach this point they'd need 2 upgrade actions which means they'd need to get 4~8 oil from elsewhere.

Not only does mechanical need only 1 upgrade action but by linking upgrade to trade this means they only need 1 oil to reach this point. From then on all upgrades are reduced to a cost of 1 coin.

This means that you can focus on pretty much any other area you want and you can always run to upgrade with a coin to make any other action better. Having 2 coins across the board with no 3 coins is a double edged sword. While it's true they have nowhere obvious to focus this also means they can do pretty much whatever they want without worrying that the action they are taking isn't as good.

Considering that "move" is arguably the most important top action and on every other board it is linked to a 1 coin bottom action, mechanical doesn't have it quite as bad as it might feel.
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Philip Morton
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I'm really unsure about all this focus on the trade+upgrade on Mechanical. It's the only thing on the mat that DOESN'T give you coins. My general feeling is that you should probably not focus much on whatever the non-rewarding action of your mat is, and that goes double (well...it goes 50% more) when it's Upgrade, where you need to hit six times instead of four to get the star out of it. The cube-shifting also seems really marginal after the first two (move and either side of Bolster), so even if you want to take some upgrade actions I'm skeptical that it would be the best idea to upgrade Upgrade itself.

It just feels like there's a weird amount of enthusiasm over "If I upgrade it, I can get it to the point where I can spend my whole turn for negative one point and 1/6th of a star!"
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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When looking at the action alone, I agree. Now if you put it in the more general context of other actions being performed more efficiently, that is another story.
Moving forward with my example, with Trade + Bolster you get 1 mech + 1 upgrade + 1 resource for free. Spending 2 actions for this result doesn't look bad to me. And as soon as the enlisting is kicking, you get even more. And you don't necessarily have to keep on trading. Only do it if needed. A steady flow of cards through Bolster + resources from Produce or encounters may well replace Trade more efficiently.

I'm not saying overpowered or only viable strategy.
I'm just saying it looks to be an interesting possibility for Crimea.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Thinking more about it, you may be right in the sense that you don't need to focus on Upgrade.
Slightly different, yet still interesting :
1) Bolster for 1 card (-1 gold)
2) Trade for 2 oils (-1 gold), upgrade the Deploy action with the Bolster/card cube
3) Bolster for 2 cards (-1 gold)
4) Trade for 2 oils (-1 gold), upgrade the Deploy action with the Move cube
The super Bolster + Deploy is ready. At this point, Crimea don't need metal and can do without oil. It can forget about Trade and concentrate on Production.
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Matthias Reitberger
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The value of upgrades is a matter of game length.
If an opponent rapidly gets all his workers out he can do alot without upgrades. He might entlist all his recruits, build all his mechs, win 2 battles and fulfill an objective to rather quickly end the game.
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Roni Jaakkola
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Hey there, nice to meet you! @Nashtanir in Twitter
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tublefou wrote:
By the way, could someone upload images of the various mats?
Would like to have a look before my next game
Thanks!

Edit : oops, found it


Where did you find them? I'm looking for them as well.
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Philip Morton
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Nashtanir wrote:
tublefou wrote:
By the way, could someone upload images of the various mats?
Would like to have a look before my next game
Thanks!

Edit : oops, found it


Where did you find them? I'm looking for them as well.

This image has good enough resolution to make out all the mats:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/3105709/scythe?size=orig...
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M Van Der Werf
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1869 wrote:
The value of upgrades is a matter of game length.
If an opponent rapidly gets all his workers out he can do alot without upgrades. He might entlist all his recruits, build all his mechs, win 2 battles and fulfill an objective to rather quickly end the game.


All the bottom row actions have some sort of long lasting benefit basically. Enlist and buildings give you a benefit with actions that also increases as the game lasts longer, and the continuous effect of mechs often benefits more with longer game too.

A large part of the upgrade benefit, making the bottom row cheaper, actually doesn't depend on game length that much assuming you get to complete the star from the bottom row things you make cheaper anyway. An early upgrade basically saves 4 resources (5 if you upgrade upgrading itself and max it) and gives you 4+ small benefit at the top.


In general the mats seem designed with idea of trading being awful. Every mat has the trading option with the terribly costly upgrade with no gold at the bottom, it seems pretty obvious that with those mats you should just avoid the trade and it's bottom row action alltogether and never bother with it. Trade itself also just seems a poor form of production and is more an action you do to get resources you have no access too or rush some early bottom row action.

Seems to me so far that the mechanical mat is actually pretty good as I don't think the upgrades are really that good, it's an expensive way to get a star and only the first 2 upgrades seem really good. For the top row I only think upgrading one of your bolster actions and your movement is really good. Upgrading trade seems bad as you don't want to select that column much if at all after the start on all mats. Upgrading production is soso I find, the mill is better then I think and going past 5 workers seems wonky. The extra production of workers 6-8 seems fairly bad for what they cost, and with few workers just producing off of 2 hexes (or 3 with mill) seems plenty.
The mechanical mat works well for just getting 1 or 2 upgrades early and then just never using that part again. Upgrade movement and/or one of the bolster actions and just focus on maxing mech and buildings, possibly taking an enlist on building/mech first if that's well situated. If enlist happens to very well situated, neighbours on patriotic and architectural mat for instance you also have the flexibility to go enlist heavy instead.



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Greg
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Markwerf wrote:
[q="1869"]


In general the mats seem designed with idea of trading being awful. Every mat has the trading option with the terribly costly upgrade with no gold at the bottom, it seems pretty obvious that with those mats you should just avoid the trade and it's bottom row action alltogether and never bother with it.




There are times when trading is useful. It's ridiculous to say not to use the trade and it's bottom row actions
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Trevor Schadt
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Hahma wrote:
There are times when trading is useful. It's ridiculous to say not to use the trade and it's bottom row actions
Specifically, at the beginning of the game, when your access to resources is limited by rivers, Trade can be incredibly useful to get the resources that you need to get your engine going. (This is especially true in the case of Polania, who starts with no access to metal or oil.)

As the game goes on, and your workers become more numerous and widespread, Produce will probably be more useful overall than Trade. At this point, Trade becomes the "scalpel" when you don't want to pay the Power/Pop/Coin and don't need all the resources that you would get from a Produce. (Or, more specifically, don't want to have to defend all the resources that you would get from a Produce.) Trade gives you, for a potentially lower cost than Produce, exactly what you need at exactly the time that you need it.
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Philip Morton
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Hahma wrote:
Markwerf wrote:

In general the mats seem designed with idea of trading being awful. Every mat has the trading option with the terribly costly upgrade with no gold at the bottom, it seems pretty obvious that with those mats you should just avoid the trade and it's bottom row action alltogether and never bother with it.

There are times when trading is useful. It's ridiculous to say not to use the trade and it's bottom row actions

It's unavoidable taking it in some situations, but I think it's a bad idea to spam it, and that's why I disapprove of upgrading your Upgrade action on Mechanical. If your Trade action ends up being one of your stars I feel like something has gone wrong.
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Markwerf wrote:

In general the mats seem designed with idea of trading being awful. Every mat has the trading option with the terribly costly upgrade with no gold at the bottom, it seems pretty obvious that with those mats you should just avoid the trade and it's bottom row action alltogether and never bother with it. Trade itself also just seems a poor form of production and is more an action you do to get resources you have no access too or rush some early bottom row action.


Chrondeath wrote:

It's unavoidable taking it in some situations, but I think it's a bad idea to spam it, and that's why I disapprove of upgrading your Upgrade action on Mechanical. If your Trade action ends up being one of your stars I feel like something has gone wrong.


Here is how I bashed the Automa with Crimean/Mechanical 128:63...

1.) Trade: 2 oil

2.) Produce: 1 worker, 1 food

3.) Trade: 2 food

4.) produce 2 worker, 1 food/ spend 4 food to *enlist produce action -> one time bonus = +2 Combat Cards (CC)

5.) Trade: 2 metal /use 2 oil and 1 CC to *upgrade trade bottom (BR) row action with CC-cube from bolster top row (TR)

6.) Bolster: 2 CC /use 2 metal and 1 CC to *deploy Speed Mech on village

7.) Trade: 1 wood + 1 oil /use 1 oil and 1 CC to *upgrade move BR-action with cube from move

8.) Move: Character to encounter, Mech 1st to Farm, drop 3 Workers, 2nd to Mountain /use 1 wood and last CC to *build whatever structure looks good with the current bonus tile (preferably the monument)

9.) Produce 4 food + 1 metal /use 4 food to *enlist bolster action, take 1 CC -> chose whatever one-time bonus

10.)Trade: 1 wood + 1 oil /use 1 oil and last CC to *upgrade bolster BR-action with cube from bolster TR-action... it shall be the last time you play trade ninja

11.) Bolster: 2 CC /use 1 metal and 1 CC to *deploy mech
(preferably Riverwalk, because it might give you a 2nd encounter, but this really depends on the bonus tile and the outcome of your 1st encounter)

12.) Move /*build (see above)

etc.

As you can see, I spammed the unloved Trade action 5x (!) during the first ten rounds, but I did play a BR-action every single turn from Round 4 on and I'll end up with 3 stars 50% developed after round 12. (2 specialists, 2 mechs, 2 structures)

Meaning the next 6 turns will deliver 3 stars, while you may focus on max. the Bonus tile w/move, strenghten your end game key-positions w/bolster and finish enlistments w/produce in order to enable the aforementioned.

Imagine you can get lucky with 1 objective and battle once or twice, so that you'll finish in between 20 rounds, possibly even on 3rd tier of popularity.

Trade is good meeple
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