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Subject: Remembering the USS Indianapolis rss

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This is a good article on the sinking of the USS Indianapolis, which occurred 71 years ago today:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/us/uss-indianapolis-sinking-an...

Please feel free to use this thread to discuss whatever you'd like about this tragedy and similar naval incidents that have touched you. Let's remember them today.
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Absolutely harrowing. So tragic that MacVay took his life despite evidence suggesting he did everything right.

Also too bad that Nic Cage is going to be in a movie about this tragic episode in US Naval history...

Thanks for sharing.
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Mark J.
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It's even worse than the article makes it out--terrible article BTW, there are much better ones readily available on Google. Typing with elevated blood pressure here so bear with me.

The USS Indianapolis *DID* send out a distress call and it was received by, IIRC, 3 different naval stations. One of them thought it might be a Jap trick and ignored it; the second the commander was intoxicated and the third IIRC just misplaced the message. The Navy covered this up for many years but it has become public available knowledge in the last ten years or so. It may have been at the time Capt. McVay was exonerated. Capt. McVay was made a scapegoat to cover up for incompetence and misconduct on the part of the Navy. This is public and official knowledge which you can confirm from independent and reputable sources.

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Please feel free to post your own book, documentary, and article recommendations here, and do your own research beyond this article. The CNN article was posted as an introduction. The good news is that at least this major American news source remembered this event today.

TTM07 wrote:
One of them thought it might be a Jap trick and ignored it


I know this event is painful, but please refrain from using 70-year-old racist terminology as we remember and respect the memories of the sailors and Marines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap
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James Brown
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Arcology wrote:
Please feel free to post your own book, documentary, and article recommendations here, and do your own research beyond this article. The CNN article was posted as an introduction. The good news is that at least this major American news source remembered this event today.

TTM07 wrote:
One of them thought it might be a Jap trick and ignored it


I know this event is painful, but please refrain from using 70-year-old racist terminology as we remember and respect the memories of the sailors and Marines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap


Racist terminology? I did not read into there statement any racist remarks, don't project any please.
 
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topman1 wrote:
Racist terminology? I did not read into there statement any racist remarks, don't project any please.


I suggest you read the wikipedia link I provided to educate yourself. Historians and journalists write without using the term in question; we can do so as well.

If there is any further posting on this issue, or use of the term in question, I will kindly ask a moderator to lock the thread.

Please keep your posts on the Indianapolis -- and don't use derogatory language.
 
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J.D. Hall
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Sadly, the first time the vast majority of Americans learned about the USS Indy was when it was mentioned in the movie "Jaws." A horrendous end to a horrendous war.
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Arcology wrote:
topman1 wrote:
Racist terminology? I did not read into there statement any racist remarks, don't project any please.


I suggest you read the wikipedia link I provided to educate yourself. Historians and journalists write without using the term in question; we can do so as well.

If there is any further posting on this issue, or use of the term in question, I will kindly ask a moderator to lock the thread.

Please keep your posts on the Indianapolis -- and don't use derogatory language.

So...

I'm fond of this Heinlein quote:
"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty,” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."

First things first, I'm not going to lock this thread. I'm sorry, but one potentially errant word isn't sufficient, especially given the context in which it was presented.

Second, when encountering a term that one finds offensive, as the old saying goes, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar (and the cynic in me says that you can catch yet more with a pile of fresh manure, but I digress). Pointing out that a term from back when is considered derogatory now is fine, but I think you could have framed it differently - "Hey, did you know that "Jap" is considered derogatory these days? Check it out! [insert wiki link here]." A private geekmail pointing this out, along with a (polite) request to edit it probably would have gone over well. That ship has of course now sailed.

When given a choice to interpret something as deliberately offensive as opposed to innocently stated, personally I prefer to err on the side of innocently stated. Of course, you may have a long personal history with the poster that I'm not aware of.

As someone who identifies with several check boxes on the list of cultural and ethnic categories, there are words that I sometimes find derogatory, but context is king.
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In that case, I'll unsubscribe. That's disappointing. I was nothing but polite, if also firm. Also, I was careful to call the term racist, not the person--or are we debating what constitutes a racist slur at this point?

From the wiki article: Jap is an English abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is generally regarded as an ethnic slur among Japanese minority populations in other countries

When we care more about offending people who use such language than the targets of it, we've lost our way somehow. In any event, it's not a conversation I want to be a part of.

Thanks.
 
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Arcology wrote:
In that case, I'll unsubscribe. That's disappointing. I was nothing but polite, if also firm. Also, I was careful to call the term racist, not the person--or are we debating what constitutes a racist slur at this point?

From the wiki article: Jap is an English abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is generally regarded as an ethnic slur among Japanese minority populations in other countries

When we care more about offending people who use such language than the targets of it, we've lost our way somehow. In any event, it's not a conversation I want to be a part of.

Thanks.


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Arcology wrote:
In that case, I'll unsubscribe. That's disappointing. I was nothing but polite, if also firm. Also, I was careful to call the term racist, not the person--or are we debating what constitutes a racist slur at this point?

From the wiki article: Jap is an English abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is generally regarded as an ethnic slur among Japanese minority populations in other countries

When we care more about offending people who use such language than the targets of it, we've lost our way somehow. In any event, it's not a conversation I want to be a part of.

Thanks.


What I would say regarding the use of the word "Jap" is that while it can be considered racist by today's standards, it was also the common term used during the historical period in which the subject incident occurred. You can read histories written at the time, as well as newspaper articles published back then, and even technical journals (such as Fahey's Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. fleet), and the word "Jap" is used throughout, as well as the even more questionable term "Nip". My dad served in the Pacific during World War Two and he used the term as well. Point is that while this isn't the kind of term we would use today to describe the Japanese, it would be a term used by everyone back in 1945, in the same manner that the Germans were referred to as krauts or nazis, the Russians as rooskies or reds, the Americans as yanks, and the Brits as, well, Brits.
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