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Scythe» Forums » General

Subject: Could we get an explanation on why a certain thread was removed? rss

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Adelin Dumitru
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Someone posted a couple of days ago a link to an offer that has been deemed "unathorized" by the designer of Scythe, who also asked for the removal of said thread. People pointed out that the thread was in compliance with the BGG rules, and I am reallt curious to see why the BGG admins decided to delete it
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Jamey Stegmaier
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I can say for sure that it has nothing to do with the "designer's attempt at securing his share." I get paid the same by distributors no matter what price their retailers sell Scythe at.
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James Mathias
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jameystegmaier wrote:
I can say for sure that it has nothing to do with the "designer's attempt at securing his share." I get paid the same by distributors no matter what price their retailers sell Scythe at.


Jamey, You've built a following around great customer service and friendly interaction. But this whole MassDrop thing is starting to erode that a bit, because frankly you are coming across a bit defensive. In this reply, but also on MassDrop and the thread that was deleted.

I'm saying this as a fan, that doesn't want to see you lose any customers due to a frustrating thing that has been aired publicly.
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Sky Zero
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Jamey Stegmaier
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I was just correcting an inaccurate statement about my motivations, James. If we lose some customers because I'm trying to protect my relationship with retailers and distributors, that's a risk I have to take.
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Adelin Dumitru
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Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask
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Adelin Dumitru
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jameystegmaier wrote:
I was just correcting an inaccurate statement about my motivations, James. If we lose some customers because I'm trying to protect my relationship with retailers and distributors, that's a risk I have to take.

QFT
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Brad Keusch
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It never fails to astound me how openly judgemental people feel free to be on the internet, limited information be damned
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Stephen Rochelle
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask
Putting words in other people's mouths isn't a good look, particularly when you're trying to claim some sort of moral high ground.
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Michael Logan
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask


Perhaps you should consider who the various customers of stonemaier games are? (This applied to anyone putting out games)

The distributors buy games. FLGS and OLGS buy games. End gamers buy games.

All of these could be considered customers.

If you ruin your relationship with a distributor that can end up effecting all the other customers as well.
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Xenothon Stelnicki
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask


A distributor IS a customer- a customer that serves and interacts with MANY others. Stonemaier Games has contracts that serve to protect and grow those relationships in order to serve as many customers as possible.

One of them has broken that contract anonymously which damages his relationship with every other distributor and his direct customers. Because a third party Stonemaier has NOT contracted with is doing the fulfillment, Stonemaier is really over a barrel in that it's difficult to know who to contact much less sue. All he can do short of things getting really nasty is politely minimize the damage.

You, in turn, are attacking him for this. gulp ...Even after those who understand took action to contain the situation. I find this particularly offensive.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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If there are any backers here who would like to speak to how much I value my customers, feel free to chime in.
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Jussi-Pekka Jokinen
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask


Isn't valuing your distributors essentially the same thing as valuing your customers? Not many companies operate solely on their own, most collaborate with others to bring the product to the consumer. We would have an extremely narrow selection of board games at our fingertips without these companies, at least here in the North.

To me, it seems that you're just trying to pick a fight with Jamey. And it's pretty ridiculous, to be honest. If you were a game designer, would you like to see your new game in a discount bin before you have even officially launched it?
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Rick Vinyard
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Huh? So you value more your distributors than your customers? That is an interesting statement. And no, I won't delete my reply, before you ask

I think that is a very unfair twisting of Jamey's words.

Your initial statement attributed motivations to Jamey's actions, and Jamey simply said that the motivation you attributed to him is inaccurate.

The fact that he also stated that by making the correction helps protect his relationship with retailers and distributors does not change the primary issue of correcting what he saw as an inaccurate statement.

There is no more competent authority to determine Jamey's motivations than Jamey himself, and he simply stated you were wrong in motivations you attributed to him.
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jameystegmaier wrote:
I can say for sure that it has nothing to do with the "designer's attempt at securing his share." I get paid the same by distributors no matter what price their retailers sell Scythe at.


Was it deleted because you were embarrassed to see some of the comments you made there being repeated here?

Though I suppose the most accurate answer is that it was deleted due to advertising dollars spent on BGG.
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Paul Ferguson
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Jamey has done nothing wrong, so just move along now.
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John Bruns
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jameystegmaier wrote:
If there are any backers here who would like to speak to how much I value my customers, feel free to chime in.


I don't know what this is originally about but I have been a backer of many of Jamey's kick starters. He has maintained the highest level of support for his customers. Anyone who has followed his campaigns is aware of his integrity.
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Adelin Dumitru
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I'm sorry, but I simply asked for an explanation regarding the removal of a whole thread that many users pointed out that did not violate community rules. I had no intention to start an argument with Jamey, though i admit that the fragment he quoted was inappropriate and should not have been included, which is why I will remove it
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Rick Vinyard
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cormor321 wrote:
Though I suppose the most accurate answer is that it was deleted due to advertising dollars spent on BGG.

I suspect it has nothing to do with Jamey or anyone else' comments. I have seen threads deleted when sellers and/or publishers tried to use the BGG threads to generate sales outside the BGG marketplace and/or outside the BGG advertising thread.
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Rick Vinyard
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
I'm sorry, but I simply asked for an explanation regarding the removal of a whole thread that many users pointed out that did not violate community rules.

Many users may have said it did not violate community rules, but just because a lot of people say something doesn't make it true.

It probably violated the non-advertisement section of the community rules. While that is a grey area, I have seen it similarly enforced in the past by BGG.

Ultimately, the only competent authority to provide you with the information you seek is the BGG admin that deleted the thread.

Absent that, everything else is speculation.
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Lee Fisher
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
I'm sorry, but I simply asked for an explanation regarding the removal of a whole thread that many users pointed out that did not violate community rules. I had no intention to start an argument with Jamey, though i admit that the fragment he quoted was inappropriate and should not have been included, which is why I will remove it


If that is simply all you want to know then the appropriate way would be to geekmail the mods or post in complaint department forum.
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rvinyard wrote:
cormor321 wrote:
Though I suppose the most accurate answer is that it was deleted due to advertising dollars spent on BGG.

I suspect it has nothing to do with Jamey or anyone else' comments. I have seen threads deleted when sellers and/or publishers tried to use the BGG threads to generate sales outside the BGG marketplace and/or outside the BGG advertising thread.


If that were true he'd be saying bgg removed it on their own rather than talking about his motives for it being removed.
 
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Eric Hartnett
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
I'm sorry, but I simply asked for an explanation regarding the removal of a whole thread that many users pointed out that did not violate community rules. I had no intention to start an argument with Jamey


If you had wanted to simply ask for an explanation, you could have simply asked for an explanation. But what you did was ask and then insinuate that Jamey had something to do with it. And then when he responded, you twisted his words to try to show him in a bad light.

I've only kickstarted one of Stonemaier's games so far and Jamey was awesome throughout. I wouldn't hesitate to back any of his projects in the future.
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Inno Van
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For the average person contracts seem to be sign and forget. But they actually mean something in business, and they have to be enforced to have meaning.

The "can't we all get along"/"you're harshing on my fun" crowd doesn't like seeing the business side of our hobby. And in fact, bgg is only about the entertainment side, with zero understanding of the many interlocking deals, contracts, and arrangements necessary to create a boardgame and distribute it to consumers. People here on bgg only care about boardgames so far as what happens after they peel off the shrink wrap and open the box as a consumer.

If you don't like seeing how businesses enforce contracts, stop prying and snooping. I don't see Jamie bringing this private business issue to this entertainment site and encouraging people to register to read the comments on the unauthorized vendor. Nor is he the one copying comments from other sites to here. The reality is this $3 undercutting by an unauthorized vendor has every authorized vendor aware of it screaming at Jamie for allowing an unlevel playing field and violating the standard vendor contract.

Nor does Jamie have any confidence that the game with be packaged and shipped correctly. When customers contact him complaining about dented corners and damaged covers, his first response is to contact the authorized vendor and show them pictures of how it arrived so the vendor can improve packaging to stop shipping them damaged. No such level of service through an unauthorized vendor.

The unauthorized vendor seems to think himself above contracts and is treating both Jamie and his vendor contract as a joke. He also has a shady pricing model. He attracts and entices customers with teaser prices that appear lower than the market, then makes up the difference through "shipping and handling fees".

The unauthorized vendor's target customer appears to be people who don't understand math and regularly fall for low priced rip-offs. Who knows what beat-up condition the game boxes will finally arrive in at people's doorsteps. Or how many game pieces will have leaked out and been lost on the way.

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Niko
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rvinyard wrote:
Ultimately, the only competent authority to provide you with the information you seek is the BGG admin that deleted the thread.
I talked to an admin via geekmail and they have removed both threads (there was a second one which also got deleted) because BGG does not allow promoting retail sites in the game forums.
Of course they will only delete threads if they are pointed out to the admins as breaking such a rule, which is why I was able to point out other threads of a similar nature (which, now that they have come to the admin's, attention also have been nuked)

Personally I'm slightly disappointed that hey just straight up delete those entire threads and would rather see them moving them to the hot deals forum, or removing links, but I can see how simply nuking it is, well, simpler for the admins.
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