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Subject: Understanding the Waterfront Reatly tile? rss

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Tony Sanfilippo
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Help me with how much money I will get when I place this office tile? ( PS I forgot to take a pic of the whole borough. You can see a corner of another lake tile that is adjacent to Community Park and Suburb.
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Dave Roy
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keso55 wrote:
Help me with how much money I will get when I place this office tile? ( PS I forgot to take a pic of the whole borough. You can see a corner of another lake tile that is adjacent to Community Park and Suburb.


You'd get $6.

$2 for the lake, and then $2 each for the two Waterfront Realty tiles.
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James C
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Yup, what he said.
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Byron S
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Plus 3 income
1 for the tile static effect
2 for both office buildings conditional effect
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Tony Sanfilippo
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runtsta wrote:
Plus 3 income
1 for the tile static effect
2 for both office buildings conditional effect
I understand this part but getting only $6 I just don't get. Should you not get at least $8 from the lake because it has 4 blue tiles adjacent which is the conditional effect of the lake?
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Byron S
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You should have already gotten the money for the other tiles. You only gain new money for the tile you're currently placing: $2 for being next to the lake + $2 for each waterfront realty for a total of $6.

If the 3 existing blue tiles (2x waterfront realty + 1x office building) were there before the lake was placed, it would have gained you $18 when you placed the lake itself: 3x $2 for the lake + 3x $2 for each waterfront realty.
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Tony Sanfilippo
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runtsta wrote:
You should have already gotten the money for the other tiles. You only gain new money for the tile you're currently placing: $2 for being next to the lake + $2 for each waterfront realty for a total of $6.

If the 3 existing blue tiles (2x waterfront realty + 1x office building) were there before the lake was placed, it would have gained you $18 when you placed the lake itself: 3x $2 for the lake + 3x $2 for each waterfront realty.
Thanks., but now I question my understanding of the conditional effect of an adjacent tile. I think that I have been playing the whole game wrong. I am confused ( that's not unusual )
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Byron S
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Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
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Tony Sanfilippo
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runtsta wrote:
Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
Oh my God have I been playing so wrong. So the conditional effect of an already placed tile only effects the newly placed tile and nothing else?
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Byron S
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keso55 wrote:
runtsta wrote:
Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
Oh my God have I been playing so wrong. So the conditional effect of an already placed tile only effects the newly placed tile and nothing else?
Yup.
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James C
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you must have been getting some huge scores!
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Kristopher
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runtsta wrote:
keso55 wrote:
runtsta wrote:
Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
Oh my God have I been playing so wrong. So the conditional effect of an already placed tile only effects the newly placed tile and nothing else?
Yup.


Wait a minute - now *I'M* getting confused. I realize that he would have gotten the money already for the first placed office tile, but don't you get new money from the previous tiles already placed If you are playing the Waterfront Realty Card? I would have gotten $2 for placing a tile next to a lake, but if I already have lakefront property, don't I get another $2 from them when I play Waterfront Realty?
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Robert Clevidence
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Lhowser wrote:
runtsta wrote:
keso55 wrote:
runtsta wrote:
Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
Oh my God have I been playing so wrong. So the conditional effect of an already placed tile only effects the newly placed tile and nothing else?
Yup.


Wait a minute - now *I'M* getting confused. I realize that he would have gotten the money already for the first placed office tile, but don't you get new money from the previous tiles already placed If you are playing the Waterfront Realty Card? I would have gotten $2 for placing a tile next to a lake, but if I already have lakefront property, don't I get another $2 from them when I play Waterfront Realty?


Exactly, my understanding was that you can calculate the final score based on the final layout of the suburb without regard to order in which the tiles were placed. We only tally points as we're going because saving everything for the end would be a nightmare.
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Steve Yates
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Lhowser wrote:
runtsta wrote:
keso55 wrote:
runtsta wrote:
Conditional effects based on adjacency trigger whenever something first becomes adjacent to it. This happens either when the tile is first placed (and now has neighbors) or when a new tile is placed adjacent to it. In either case, the bonuses only trigger for the newly adjacent tile(s).
Oh my God have I been playing so wrong. So the conditional effect of an already placed tile only effects the newly placed tile and nothing else?
Yup.


Wait a minute - now *I'M* getting confused. I realize that he would have gotten the money already for the first placed office tile, but don't you get new money from the previous tiles already placed If you are playing the Waterfront Realty Card? I would have gotten $2 for placing a tile next to a lake, but if I already have lakefront property, don't I get another $2 from them when I play Waterfront Realty?

You are correct about the amount you receive, but it is also correct that existing tiles' conditional effects are counted only for the newly added tile. The extra money you are talking about is the result of the new tile's conditional effect.

In the original picture, when the lower Waterfront Realty was placed (assuming it was the second Waterfront Realty placed) you would have received cash benefits from 2 existing tiles' effects:

1. The lake pays $2 for each adjacent tile. Since you added a tile adjacent to the lake, you receive $2.
2. The first Waterfront Realty pays $2 for any tile adjacent to a lake, so since you placed a tile adjacent to a lake, you receive $2.

The total for these two tiles' conditional effects is $4.
(You would also receive an increase in reputation due to the Community Park's conditional effect for adjacent buildings)

You then collect the conditional effect of the newly place tile. The conditional effect of a new tile gives benefits based on all existing tiles (including the new tile if appropriate). The new Waterfront realty also pays $2 for each tile adjacent to a lake. Since this was placed before the added Office Building in the original example, there are 3 tiles adjacent to the visible lake (counting the new Waterfront Realty) and at least 2 next to another lake, so you would collect at least $10 from the new tile's effect, but the existing tiles' effects only paid based on the new tile.

Calculating benefits in this way means the timing of the placement of the tiles is meaningless, the total benefit will be the same.
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Steve Yates
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Clevider wrote:

Exactly, my understanding was that you can calculate the final score based on the final layout of the suburb without regard to order in which the tiles were placed. We only tally points as we're going because saving everything for the end would be a nightmare.

The order of tiles does not effect the benefits they give, but you can't really score everything at the end of the game.

The tiles we're talking about here are giving cash. Cash is needed throughout the game, so you need to calculate it as you go. You also collect cash and population each turn based on your current income and population. There is no way to calculate these totals at the end of the game because they are very dependent on timing. Having caps at both ends of the income and reputation tracks also makes difficulties in calculating the final values of these by looking at the tile layout.
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Robert Clevidence
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Much better explanation, Steve. Thank you.

I have a slightly different question now: given the number of times questions about this tile has come up, I wonder if Mr. Alspach ever regretted having put it in the game.
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Greg Allen
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I don't see there's a problem with this tile. The effects of waterfront realty takes effect at the time when u put it in and all the lake tiles entitle to get $2 for all exisiting tiles next to the lake.

Now all new tiles even including the waterfront realty that adds in next to the lake gets $4.

When the 2nd waterfront realty is placed in immediately all lake tiles collect another $2 for every adjecent tiles. All new tiles after the 2nd waterfront realty will gets you $6 when build adjecent to the lake. The 2nd waterfront realty will get you $6 also if place adjecent to the lake.
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Kristopher
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algoh wrote:
I don't see there's a problem with this tile. The effects of waterfront realty takes effect at the time when u put it in and all the lake tiles entitle to get $2 for all exisiting tiles next to the lake.

Now all new tiles even including the waterfront realty that adds in next to the lake gets $4.

When the 2nd waterfront realty is placed in immediately all lake tiles collect another $2 for every adjecent tiles. All new tiles after the 2nd waterfront realty will gets you $6 when build adjecent to the lake. The 2nd waterfront realty will get you $6 also if place adjecent to the lake.


This is MY understanding of the tile. Yes.
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Tony Sanfilippo
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Clevider wrote:
Much better explanation, Steve. Thank you.

I have a slightly different question now: given the number of times questions about this tile has come up, I wonder if Mr. Alspach ever regretted having put it in the game.
I am starting to feel that way. I might just not use it anymore
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Tony Sanfilippo
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hist wrote:
keso55 wrote:
Help me with how much money I will get when I place this office tile? ( PS I forgot to take a pic of the whole borough. You can see a corner of another lake tile that is adjacent to Community Park and Suburb.


You'd get $6.

$2 for the lake, and then $2 each for the two Waterfront Realty tiles.
New scenario -- Let us say that I put down that Office building tile and collected my $6. On the top left of my diagram you can see a little bit of a lake tile. let us assume that I just place that tile. How much would I get for placing that lake tile now?
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Mikko Saari
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The new lake is adjacent to two tiles, as far as I can tell. That gets you $4 for the lake ($2 per tile), $4 for one Waterfront Realty (extra $2 per tile) and $4 for the second Waterfront Realty (another extra $2 per tile).
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Tony Sanfilippo
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msaari wrote:
The new lake is adjacent to two tiles, as far as I can tell. That gets you $4 for the lake ($2 per tile), $4 for one Waterfront Realty (extra $2 per tile) and $4 for the second Waterfront Realty (another extra $2 per tile).
That would be $12. I think I get the tile now
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Arthur Peterson
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So what happens when you invest in a lake tile? Do you collect just an extra $2 for each adjacent? Or do you also get the realty bonus?
 
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Byron S
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zpeteman wrote:
So what happens when you invest in a lake tile? Do you collect just an extra $2 for each adjacent? Or do you also get the realty bonus?
Only the adjacent. You'd have to invest in the Realty tile(s) to gain that bonus again.
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runtsta wrote:
zpeteman wrote:
So what happens when you invest in a lake tile? Do you collect just an extra $2 for each adjacent? Or do you also get the realty bonus?
Only the adjacent. You'd have to invest in the Realty tile(s) to gain that bonus again.


This answer does not make sense to me. But maybe it is the question that is also a little confused.

A new lake should pay out 2+2*number of WaterFrontRealty for each adjacent tile of the relevant type when placed.

Correct?
 
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