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James Luksich
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Hey everyone, I've played this scenario a couple of times and looking to get other's thoughts on it. Namely about when others bring in the US scouts.

When I play the US I usually bring in the scouts turn 1 (Perhaps after the Japanese have activated a unit or two), which actually puts the Japanese player a bit on the defensive round 1 as half their forces are still off board. This does forfeit the 1 VP per unit per turn for keeping the scouts off board but I think it is worth it to prevent the initial US units from being overrun and to make sure the scouts have the rounds to fight their way to the boat.

I also usually bring them in relatively straight towards the coconut grove so that they spend less APs moving and more shooting.

What about the rest of you guys? Do you wait a round or two to bring them in?
 
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Nigel Heather
United Kingdom
Horsham
West Sussex
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Played for the first time, me playing as the USMC and my son as the Japanese.

I'm sure I could have played it better because the USMC were anihilated - all were killed and not a single Japanese casulty.

I brought the scouts on in Turn 1 and was wondering whether that was a mistake. The problem is that my son did not move the Japanese first group of Japanese until the last round. He moved the reinforcements down the beach in turns 3 and 4 to wipe up the remains.

The problem for the USMC is that the Japanese were sat in light and heavy jungle so near impossible to shoot at range. They just sat there and shot at the USMC who were in lighter cover.

So as my Scouts entered they were just shot up. As soon as they had a hit, they were useless and very difficult to rally. Likewise the troops near the LCP were soon incapitated, practically unable to do anything or rally.

In the end, the USMC unable to do anything, the Japanese having twice then three times the activations, just calmly walked up to each USMC unit and shot them in the head. All the USMC could do was stand there and watch.

Hoping it plays better when the rest of the rules in place.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Lewis Karl
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Wow Nigel, that is exactly the opposite of my experience. The Japanese cannot win by shooting at long range. The rifles have a range of 5 and the MMG is not in position at start to shoot anything. It must be moved to get a good line on the marines in the palm groves.

In addition, the scouts can come in behind the two Japanese units near the edge. The Japanese will have to either retreat or turn and be attacked at short range. Further, if Japanese are just going to sit and not move, just send the scouts straight to the beach up near the eastern half of the map. With 5 range the Japanese rifles will not be a threat unless they move.

Use CAPs to enter the scouts or make small position changes at start, and then you have options.

Finally, the U.S. Units have more CAPs and 6 units vs the Japanese 4. In no way should the U.S. Run out of AP and CAPs before the Japanese in round one.
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Nigel Heather
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My experience admittedly based off a single game - also this is an intro, modular game so not the full rull set (no cards for example).

The Japanese MMG only needs to move one space to be able to sweep the beach and the palm groves with its massive range and low fire cost. It probably won't have to move again in the whole game and it is practically untouchable.

I did bring my Scout BAR into J12 behind the Japanese Infantry on J11 - that cost me 3AP (1 + 2 drm). The Japaneses had to turn to face me giving me first shot. The +3 of close range and +3 of cover cancelled. I added 2 CAPs because I wanted to be sure so I needed 6 or higher to hit - I threw 4. That had used up my APs, the Japanese infantry then shot at me and inflicted a wound. I find the wounds are cripping, severely hampering move or attack or both (but usually improving defence). Rally is expensive and tough so I found that once wounded the unit was mostly useless and unlikely to recover.

Whilst the Japanese in J11 was engaging the BAR, I brought in Rifles into H12 firing into the Japanese rear. So the Japanese turned to face me, I shot at him with 2 CAPs and threw another 4 to miss. The Japanese added a CAP to fire and wounded - the USMC rifles was then unable to do anything because of the wound he received - he was shortly finished off by the Japanese infantry in C10.

In the next round the Scout BAR tried to rally and failed, wasting another two CAPs. The Japanese Infantry in J11 then finished him off.

The group at the beach were torn up by the MMG firing three times per activation, the Infantry in G08 and the reinforcements coming down the beach.

During round 3, the USMC were down to two units - my son finished these off in round 4 choosing total anihilation rather than the extra 4VP for keeping them alive.


Cheers,

Nigel

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Mike Richardson
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nheather wrote:


During round 3, the USMC were down to two units - my son finished these off in round 4 choosing total anihilation rather than the extra 4VP for keeping them alive.




In other words your opponent lowered his VP score (by 4VPs) by eliminating the scouts. Why would he do that?

Presumably if gaining 4VP per unit for keeping the marines alive would have meant winning the scenario, and 2VP per unit for killing them had meant losing it, your opponent would have opted to let the US units stay alive?

The US units would then have had to commit suicide to win.

Which is why I argue this FF is broken.
 
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Lewis Karl
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Nigel, that is tough luck. I used CAPS to bring Scouts on to the board, in flanking positions. Then I had full AP and flexibility to not activate if the Japanese retreated.

The Japanese MMG is the serious threat to units on the beach without cover. Perhaps taking the jungle hexes just South of the LCP is a decent objective for the 3 marines on the beach. Then hold until the Scouts reinforce. These marines can group move/fire, possibly using CAPS, so that's another alternative.

This FF is a tough nut to crack, but I'm enjoying it. I thinks its a good FF design.
 
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Blorb Plorbst
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Bloomington
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I've only played once but my assessment is this:

Since the Japanese don't lose CAPs or VP when they lose a unit and earn 2VP when they eliminate a Marine Unit: BANZAI!

Japanese should move to close range and attack relentlessly. With 19 hit tokens, 9 of which have no effect on your attack ability (and 20% with no effect at all), you can take losses as long as the US takes them as well.

Bring your beach reinforcements in with a 5 CAP group move and you've got another round of attacks on the flanks with fresh troops.

I think the Marine's best option is to fall back, pass often, hope for a little luck and don't bring in the scouts until the 3rd turn. Then group move them to the boat and leave.
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James Luksich
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Quote:

In other words your opponent lowered his VP score (by 4VPs) by eliminating the scouts. Why would he do that?

Presumably if gaining 4VP per unit for keeping the marines alive would have meant winning the scenario, and 2VP per unit for killing them had meant losing it, your opponent would have opted to let the US units stay alive?

The US units would then have had to commit suicide to win.

Which is why I argue this FF is broken.


But until the boat sails they could still be evacuated for US points AND they can help with keeping the other units alive. I think the VP conditions work well, though once the US player chooses to sail with the boat you could have a gamey situation where the Japanese player would pass rather than kill the US units. If that bugs you, just end the scenario once the US player leaves with the boat (Which would be either round 3 or 4) and count any remaining US units as the 4 VPs for the Japanese.
 
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Lewis Karl
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DELTA2468 wrote:
Quote:

In other words your opponent lowered his VP score (by 4VPs) by eliminating the scouts. Why would he do that?

Presumably if gaining 4VP per unit for keeping the marines alive would have meant winning the scenario, and 2VP per unit for killing them had meant losing it, your opponent would have opted to let the US units stay alive?

The US units would then have had to commit suicide to win.

Which is why I argue this FF is broken.


But until the boat sails they could still be evacuated for US points AND they can help with keeping the other units alive. I think the VP conditions work well, though once the US player chooses to sail with the boat you could have a gamey situation where the Japanese player would pass rather than kill the US units. If that bugs you, just end the scenario once the US player leaves with the boat (Which would be either round 3 or 4) and count any remaining US units as the 4 VPs for the Japanese.


The scenario ends immediately when the boat leaves.
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James Luksich
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pisqueeter wrote:
DELTA2468 wrote:
Quote:

In other words your opponent lowered his VP score (by 4VPs) by eliminating the scouts. Why would he do that?

Presumably if gaining 4VP per unit for keeping the marines alive would have meant winning the scenario, and 2VP per unit for killing them had meant losing it, your opponent would have opted to let the US units stay alive?

The US units would then have had to commit suicide to win.

Which is why I argue this FF is broken.


But until the boat sails they could still be evacuated for US points AND they can help with keeping the other units alive. I think the VP conditions work well, though once the US player chooses to sail with the boat you could have a gamey situation where the Japanese player would pass rather than kill the US units. If that bugs you, just end the scenario once the US player leaves with the boat (Which would be either round 3 or 4) and count any remaining US units as the 4 VPs for the Japanese.


The scenario ends immediately when the boat leaves.



blush

Whoops, I misremembered that!
Then yeah, the only time you could have a gamey situation where the Japanese player would pass on a kill would be if the US player didn't have enough CAPs/APs to move a unit to the boat.
 
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Lewis Karl
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You still might have the Japanese player stall/pass if the Scouts are not near enough to them or the beach to worry. Stalling is a tactic I use in every FF and is essential to the game. Let the Scouts run out of AP and then attack the beach marines with abandon.
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Mark van Dyk
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Have you been playing with someone besides me in your free time?
 
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Adam French
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But if you can't get your units to the boat because they are getting picked off the 2 VPs vs 4 VPs is irrelavant.
 
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