Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

The Manhattan Project: Chain Reaction» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you play horizontal cards mid-chain? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
J Weintraub
United States
Commack
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Lock him up!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nowhere in the rules does is say either that you can, or that you cannot play more cards horizontally to add to the output of a chain to continue the chain, and there's no examples that show it either.

So, can I:
* Turn a card horizontally to produce workers, then
* play a mine to produce yellowcake, then
* play more horizontal cards to add workers to the yellowcake, and then,
* play an enrichment card to make Uranium from the workers and yellowcake?

Also, I saw on another thread that you can make multiple chains in one turn. That should definitely be added to the rulebook, as there's no mention either way, and we assumed it was one chain.

For such a short game, the rulebook seems to have completely missed some key details.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess it doesn't say directly in the rules, but yes you can play any and all cards you are able to following the personnel rules. The second paragraph in the rules (talking about playing cards) says "You then play another card...and so it goes until the eventual output is what the player wants". Later on in the rules under Play Overview it says "You may play as many cards as you are able."

Chains are generally Input (sideways personnel or resources provided by a building, or both) -> Building(if applicable) -> Output.

So, you are able to do what you stated in your example:
*Input (horizontal card)
*Building (Mine) -> Output (Yellowcake)
*Input (horizontal card and Yellowcake)
*Building (Plant) -> Output (Uranium)

That's two complete chains.

I'm no expert but this is how I've been interpreting the rules/statements I've read so far.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mathe
United States
Greenfield
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
http://www.Game-Universe.com
badge
http://www.MinionGames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes you can play any card (all of them?) at any time during your turn to make as many chains as you want and in any order you want. The output of a building can feed the input of another chain/card. The second chain you start can start with a sideways card or workers in your pool from a University or Yellowcake resources from previous and this round.

The only thing you CAN NOT DO is to split the workers on the side of a single card between two different cards as input. You cannot use a E + S on one card to feed an E on a card and a S on another - they do not stick around in a pool and are just wasted. The output of a University, though, does put workers into your "floating pool" that then allows you to use them on any future cards during this turn.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Weintraub
United States
Commack
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Lock him up!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, great, thanks for clearing that up. The only examples you give of using workers from the side of a card is at the beginning of a chain (and you only ever show or talk about making A chain). I'll have to try the game again this way and see what difference it makes.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerad Clark
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
RPGShop wrote:
....

The only thing you CAN NOT DO is to split the workers on the side of a single card between two different cards as input. You cannot use a E + S on one card to feed an E on a card and a S on another - they do not stick around in a pool and are just wasted. The output of a University, though, does put workers into your "floating pool" that then allows you to use them on any future cards during this turn.


oh dang, think I played this wrong tonight. Well, I now know for next time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Derrick
United States
Los Alamos
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPGShop wrote:

The only thing you CAN NOT DO is to split the workers on the side of a single card between two different cards as input.
Is there a particular reason for this rule? Game design-wise I mean.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mathe
United States
Greenfield
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
http://www.Game-Universe.com
badge
http://www.MinionGames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes as it allows control of flow of the resources. If you could just split them up wherever then you'd be able to make many more combos quite easily. With the restriction, it's more challenging and therefore should be more rewarding / fun.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Derrick
United States
Los Alamos
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPGShop wrote:
Yes as it allows control of flow of the resources. If you could just split them up wherever then you'd be able to make many more combos quite easily. With the restriction, it's more challenging and therefore should be more rewarding / fun.
I had a feeling that it was that simple. My problem is in explaining the game to new players it seems counter intuitive that you can split secondary 'outputs' but not 'primary' inputs, since in the game, they seem like much the same thing. But the reasoning behind it is solid, so, I'm good on it. Thanks much.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
badge
Sometimes life is scary and dark. That is why we must find the light. -BMO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I commented on this in another thread, but it's relevant here too:

The rules need work. The flow of the game regarding "personnel" vs generated workers as well as multiple chains, is not made clear in the rules; yet these are the core of the gameplay.

Learning the game from the rules required quite a lot of discussion and careful re-reading of several rule sections several times to get it right.

In the end, one can figure it out from the rules if you're an experienced gamer, but it was definitely a bit annoying. It would have been a simple matter to clarify things, and I'd highly recommend revising the rules if a second printing happens. Or a FAQ.

Great little game though!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Misterboy wrote:
...
The rules need work. The flow of the game regarding "personnel" vs generated workers as well as multiple chains, is not made clear in the rules; yet these are the core of the gameplay...


(I know I said earlier it doesnt say so in the rules but...)

Re-reading the rules there's actually a large paragraph explaining personnel vs generator workers...

"To play a card for its personnel, place it in front of you with the long edge upwards (sideways). The personnel it provides may then be used to activate one card...Multiple cards may be played to provide enough personnel...but all personnel from these cards are used up by activating that single building/plan...Leftover personnel...may not be used to activate other cards later during a turn...If the building generates personnel, they may be used to activate multiple buildings/plans...You may use cards for their personnel at any time during your turn."


Also: I really like your Micro badges MisterBoy
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
badge
Sometimes life is scary and dark. That is why we must find the light. -BMO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Braffe wrote:
Misterboy wrote:
...
The rules need work. The flow of the game regarding "personnel" vs generated workers as well as multiple chains, is not made clear in the rules; yet these are the core of the gameplay...


(I know I said earlier it doesnt say so in the rules but...)

Re-reading the rules there's actually a large paragraph explaining personnel vs generator workers...

"To play a card for its personnel, place it in front of you with the long edge upwards (sideways). The personnel it provides may then be used to activate one card...Multiple cards may be played to provide enough personnel...but all personnel from these cards are used up by activating that single building/plan...Leftover personnel...may not be used to activate other cards later during a turn...If the building generates personnel, they may be used to activate multiple buildings/plans...You may use cards for their personnel at any time during your turn."


Also: I really like your Micro badges MisterBoy


Yeah, I read that in the rules. I read it like 3 times to be sure. That's the issue.

The problem is one of rules authorship. Once you know how it works, you see that the rules do have the correct info, which I pointed out. The problem is, that the final sentence you highlighted actually seems to contradict the first part of the paragraph. It doesn't. But it appears to. So you go back and re-read it. And you figure out that there is a effectively two types of personnel.

This could have been made clear from the beginning. Or you could use the nomenclature I subtly inserted into my comment, "personnel" vs "generated workers".

There are any number of ways to revise the rules slightly to make it incredibly clear. As it stands, the rules have large blocks of text which required two extremely experienced board gamers to stop, re-read, have a discussion, and basically mar the first game experience a bit. Not a huge deal, but annoying when the gameplay is actually very straight forward.

My comment is not about how bad the rules are, it's about how a few small tweaks would clear up confusion.

Edit: thanks for the Avatar love! I actually just changed it to that a couple of days ago.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just wanted to mention that it was in the rules, but ya it could be written better. I agree with much of what you said. Maybe after reading the rules several times over before and after I got the game I assume much of it at this point.

They had decent diagrams throughout, but none of them showed a left over "personnel" that was unused. I think that would have helped enforce the rule of 'sideways personnel cant activate more than 1 card'.

The 'How to build a bomb in one turn' section shows multiple chains nicely. One to make scientists, one to make scientists, one to make yellow cake, and one to make uranium. Again, here they could have shown sideways personnel being used in a less effective manner to show how you the minor details of them.

EDIT: I like to call them Interns(or Temps) and Employees
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Weintraub
United States
Commack
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Lock him up!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I entirely agree. The rules could be MUCH clearer, and have much better examples. There's no example of what I asked about, though there could be. There's no example of someone creating two chains on their turn, nor is there explicit mention of it, though apparently it's legal. As short as the rules are, they are woefully inadequate.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mathe
United States
Greenfield
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
http://www.Game-Universe.com
badge
http://www.MinionGames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry that you had a hard time with the rules. Rules are one of the hardest things to do when making a game. The rules went through 2 editors as well as being shared with over 1000 backers for feedback... I guess everyone absorbs things differently and we only had 1 page to do all the rules in. I'll make note of your issues in case we do a revision.

Thanks for playing.
James
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
André Souza
msg tools
Hey, can I suplement output workers with extra cards to feed a structure input?

And, likewise, can I feed a structure with workers from different cards?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
galahads wrote:
Hey, can I suplement output workers with extra cards to feed a structure input?

And, likewise, can I feed a structure with workers from different cards?


Yes, and Yes
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.