$30.00
Recommend
17 
 Thumb up
 Hide
105 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Maggibot on ANA rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Nathanael Robinson
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Marguerite Cottrell is a buyer at a Seattle area game store (Card Kingdom?) as well as a podcaster/vlogger. She had some highly critical things to say about Asmodee North America's pricing policies on The Dukes of Dice podcast, claiming that it has had a devastating effect on their ability to sell, particularly with regard to their flexibility with games that aren't selling well and with pre-orders. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten much attention, to I decided to transcribe them (with some edits, hopefully leaving the meaning intact--errors are mine).

Quote:
… this is devastating for me. … In retail, the way Asmodee did their new program, they announced it as if it were a boon to brick and mortar stores. They literally said that they were here to help the little guy. And the way that they helped us was to limit how we ordered. They raised our prices (unless you order by case size, which is not feasible when you are making absolutely no money on games), and they eliminated the possibility for most brick and mortar stores to sell on line. This affects retail really, really heavily, because … basically, you use online sales, like Amazon or eBay and those types of things, as kind of like a release valve. “This game isn't selling, but at least we can sell it online, and get it out of the store and get our money back even at those low prices. ...”

By eliminating our ability to sell online through a third party reseller, we had to either not pre-order or pre-order far, far fewer copies of any given game by Asmodee. And now, if they pick up Z-Man, we're talking Agricola, we're talking Carcassone, we're talking really, really big name games—Pandemic. But without the ability to sell those online, which is an income stream for us, it really, really hurts. And it sucks so hard, because the people that are allowed to sell online are the big names … .

It hurts us so hard in retail that I could have cried yesterday, 'cause it affects our business so much, and I really, really wish that they would come to terms with that a little bit. They've made online policies, like how they will sell to online resellers, and they haven' opened that up to more than about twelve different businesses. It's those twelves businesses that can sell online. They get a different price point—they get a different cost. I'm fine with than. Give me a different cost so that I can sell online. At least that way, I have that release valve. But, no, they eliminated an entire part of our business. … You at least need your money back.

Our sales online—we do a quarterly sale at the store, and people are like, “why are you selling those things at those crazy discounts.” “Well, because they didn't sell during the quarter. We need our money back.” However it will sell, that's how we need to get rid of it. And this had made those way more extreme. … I have been trying to tell people, “No, this is the worst thing ever.” …

Because their policy was so public (it was weird that they did all these press releases and stuff—normally you would have no idea how a game company would interact with retail, but they did this huge public press release), … other companies, smaller companies, are looking at that as if that were a good model to follow. And you start hearing other smaller companies deciding to make these types of policies as well, because “it helps the little guy,” because they keep hearing that line. And it is so ridiculous and off-putting to me. I hate it.
28 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are a lot better ways they could have "helped the little guy". That phrase was just a nice PR soundbite.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bad Thoughts wrote:
Marguerite Cottrell is a buyer at a Seattle area game store (Card Kingdom?) as well as a podcaster/vlogger. She had some highly critical things to say about Asmodee North America's pricing policies on The Dukes of Dice podcast, claiming that it has had a devastating effect on their ability to sell, particularly with regard to their flexibility with games that aren't selling well and with pre-orders. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten much attention, to I decided to transcribe them (with some edits, hopefully leaving the meaning intact--errors are mine).

Quote:
… this is devastating for me. … In retail, the way Asmodee did their new program, they announced it as if it were a boon to brick and mortar stores. They literally said that they were here to help the little guy. And the way that they helped us was to limit how we ordered. They raised our prices (unless you order by case size, which is not feasible when you are making absolutely no money on games), and they eliminated the possibility for most brick and mortar stores to sell on line. This affects retail really, really heavily, because … basically, you use online sales, like Amazon or eBay and those types of things, as kind of like a release valve. “This game isn't selling, but at least we can sell it online, and get it out of the store and get our money back even at those low prices. ...”

By eliminating our ability to sell online through a third party reseller, we had to either not pre-order or pre-order far, far fewer copies of any given game by Asmodee. And now, if they pick up Z-Man, we're talking Agricola, we're talking Carcassone, we're talking really, really big name games—Pandemic. But without the ability to sell those online, which is an income stream for us, it really, really hurts. And it sucks so hard, because the people that are allowed to sell online are the big names … .

It hurts us so hard in retail that I could have cried yesterday, 'cause it affects our business so much, and I really, really wish that they would come to terms with that a little bit. They've made online policies, like how they will sell to online resellers, and they haven' opened that up to more than about twelve different businesses. It's those twelves businesses that can sell online. They get a different price point—they get a different cost. I'm fine with than. Give me a different cost so that I can sell online. At least that way, I have that release valve. But, no, they eliminated an entire part of our business. … You at least need your money back.

Our sales online—we do a quarterly sale at the store, and people are like, “why are you selling those things at those crazy discounts.” “Well, because they didn't sell during the quarter. We need our money back.” However it will sell, that's how we need to get rid of it. And this had made those way more extreme. … I have been trying to tell people, “No, this is the worst thing ever.” …

Because their policy was so public (it was weird that they did all these press releases and stuff—normally you would have no idea how a game company would interact with retail, but they did this huge public press release), … other companies, smaller companies, are looking at that as if that were a good model to follow. And you start hearing other smaller companies deciding to make these types of policies as well, because “it helps the little guy,” because they keep hearing that line. And it is so ridiculous and off-putting to me. I hate it.

I really do understand and sympathize with the stores that were negatively hit. I immediately lost the use of a $10k software package, plus my small online revenue stream. Obviously I was not hit as hard. What I do not understand is some things that are coming out that are not correct. I will quote the quoted statement.

Quote:
They literally said that they were here to help the little guy. And the way that they helped us was to limit how we ordered.
With no more exclusives, I now have more options to get ANA games.

Quote:
They raised our prices (unless you order by case size, which is not feasible when you are making absolutely no money on games), and they eliminated the possibility for most brick and mortar stores to sell on line.
I've heard this several times. My prices have dropped overall by a little less than 1%, and I can order a mere 1 copy. How? I no longer need to buy exclusives from 1 distributor only, and can shift the bulk of my purchasing to one that gives me a better discount. After this quarter, my discount should rise slightly more with that distributor, as I will have hit another volume tier.

Quote:
This affects retail really, really heavily, because … basically, you use online sales, like Amazon or eBay and those types of things, as kind of like a release valve. “This game isn't selling, but at least we can sell it online, and get it out of the store and get our money back even at those low prices. ...”
That online relief valve is what ANA wanted to stop. There are no such limits in-store.

Quote:
By eliminating our ability to sell online through a third party reseller, we had to either not pre-order or pre-order far, far fewer copies of any given game by Asmodee.
While online demand has decreased (been eliminated), in-store demand has increased. This will cause most physical stores to order more, and is part of ANA's goal.

Quote:
Our sales online—we do a quarterly sale at the store, and people are like, “why are you selling those things at those crazy discounts.” “Well, because they didn't sell during the quarter. We need our money back.” However it will sell, that's how we need to get rid of it. And this had made those way more extreme. … I have been trying to tell people, “No, this is the worst thing ever.” …
Shift to an in-store sale. I do one a year on Black Friday, with prices up to 80% off. I do have to hold inventory longer than if it was quarterly, but my customers absolutely love the sale, and I sell oodles of games at that sale. I drool at Seattle's customer base to pull in far more customers for a sale.


12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
There are a lot better ways they could have "helped the little guy". That phrase was just a nice PR soundbite.

Potentially, but any method would have pushback from some people. This particular move certainly has had a lot of strong reactions.

My view: If ANA maintains this claimed strategy, and if ANA continues refining the strategy correctly, and if ANA does not do any number of moves to begin bypassing regular retail, this will be good for most physical stores.

I sincerely hope that store can not just recover. I hope it can end up thriving in the new atmosphere.

Only time will tell what ANA's motivations and plans really are.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
Malta
Marsalforn
Gozo, Malta
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Man alive, now I *really* hope Jeff is a guest on Maggie's next weekly live google hangout!
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rahdo wrote:
Man alive, now I *really* hope Jeff is a guest on Maggie's next weekly live google hangout!

I should include a disclaimer: my views are my own, and might be wrong.

I know several game store owners personally who feel the same as Maggie, and while I feel differently, and believe I am right, I may not be.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Madison
Wisconsin
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Absolutely, not surprising.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cris Whetstone
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't really have a dog in this fight as I do not sell games and do not purchase them often. I may not be completely informed on this ANA issue either. But in reading the above rant it seems to me that the "release valve" scheme as described above sounds more like musical chairs than a sustainable business model. I understand you make do in the short term but it sounds like they are playing a game of sorts between being a brick 'n mortar and an online retailer. They may need to consider their overall strategy going forward rather than being angry when it falls apart.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Madison
Wisconsin
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WetRock wrote:
I don't really have a dog in this fight as I do not sell games and do not purchase them often. I may not be completely informed on this ANA issue either. But in reading the above rant it seems to me that the "release valve" scheme as described above sounds more like musical chairs than a sustainable business model. I understand you make do in the short term but it sounds like they are playing a game of sorts between being a brick 'n mortar and an online retailer. They may need to consider their overall strategy going forward rather than being angry when it falls apart.


Exactly!

This retailer's business plan relied too heavily on being able to dump stock via other channels. It worked while it did, which is exactly how businesses are supposed to operate. They aren't bullet proof, just not dead yet.

There are winners and losers, sometimes you are both, but hopefully you are the former more often and longer than the latter. If you don't get that, you should never even consider entering the arena of business.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WetRock wrote:
I don't really have a dog in this fight as I do not sell games and do not purchase them often. I may not be completely informed on this ANA issue either. But in reading the above rant it seems to me that the "release valve" scheme as described above sounds more like musical chairs than a sustainable business model. I understand you make do in the short term but it sounds like they are playing a game of sorts between being a brick 'n mortar and an online retailer. They may need to consider their overall strategy going forward rather than being angry when it falls apart.
I suspect you're thinking that's something that happens on a lot of games. I doubt that it does. It's just something that helps them out occasionally when they get stuck with a game that looked like it would be a good selling game, but ends up being something nobody wants.

Essentially, having the ability to sell online is a way of mitigating risk that allows a FLGS to order heavily. While most games they order will probably sell well, occasionally they may end up ordering a dog that doesn't sell well at all. Being able to sell the stock online cheaply prevents them from being tied up with their money sunk into inventory for a game that won't sell for some time.

If they don't have the ability to do that, then it's much riskier for them to order heavily as they really can't afford to tie up all their cash in inventory. Even a single large order of a game they can't unload can mess up their cash flow and be dangerous. Which means that to avoid that possibility they have to cut their order sizes on all games, as you're never sure which game will be the dog that doesn't sell.

And while that probably affects their ability to sell games, as they'll run out of stock sooner, it particularly hurts them as they need to order a certain dollar volume from their distributor to get price breaks (or possibly to even qualify to get a delivery at all). Which puts them in a weird position where they might be forced to either not carry games from that distributor as they can't make the appropriate volumes or order heavy and risk getting stuck with a lot of stock that they can't sell. And if they run that risk and get caught out, it could potentially push them out of business.

It might not be an issue for a lot of FLGS's, but I suspect the smaller ones are a lot more susceptible to this problem.

8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cris Whetstone
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
WetRock wrote:
I don't really have a dog in this fight as I do not sell games and do not purchase them often. I may not be completely informed on this ANA issue either. But in reading the above rant it seems to me that the "release valve" scheme as described above sounds more like musical chairs than a sustainable business model. I understand you make do in the short term but it sounds like they are playing a game of sorts between being a brick 'n mortar and an online retailer. They may need to consider their overall strategy going forward rather than being angry when it falls apart.
I suspect you're thinking that's something that happens on a lot of games. I doubt that it does. It's just something that helps them out occasionally when they get stuck with a game that looked like it would be a good selling game, but ends up being something nobody wants.

Essentially, having the ability to sell online is a way of mitigating risk that allows a FLGS to order heavily. While most games they order will probably sell well, occasionally they may end up ordering a dog that doesn't sell well at all. Being able to sell the stock online cheaply prevents them from being tied up with their money sunk into inventory for a game that won't sell for some time.

If they don't have the ability to do that, then it's much riskier for them to order heavily as they really can't afford to tie up all their cash in inventory. Even a single large order of a game they can't unload can mess up their cash flow and be dangerous. Which means that to avoid that possibility they have to cut their order sizes on all games, as you're never sure which game will be the dog that doesn't sell.

And while that probably affects their ability to sell games, as they'll run out of stock sooner, it particularly hurts them as they need to order a certain dollar volume from their distributor to get price breaks (or possibly to even qualify to get a delivery at all). Which puts them in a weird position where they might be forced to either not carry games from that distributor as they can't make the appropriate volumes or order heavy and risk getting stuck with a lot of stock that they can't sell. And if they run that risk and get caught out, it could potentially push them out of business.

It might not be an issue for a lot of FLGS's, but I suspect the smaller ones are a lot more susceptible to this problem.



Sure. But I also think you've put about as much positive light on that as you can. I get it. They order something heavily they think will move well and if it doesn't they bump it online for a discount. I think my point stands here. There are essentially speculating with a near guaranteed outlet for their missed bets. Fine. But I cannot feel sorry for a retailer that bases their business on such a model and has part of that model end.

We are not talking about a strictly mom 'n pop brick and mortar not being able to withstand local market pressure. We are talking about a small shop speculating and using online retailing to cover their behinds. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that they got caught in the middle trying to play it both ways.

They are angry which is to be expected. I just cannot see where in their particular sort of case that I should feel that badly for them. The music stopped or the other shoe dropped or whatever. Hopefully they are reassessing rather than hoping a business on the other side of the equation will look on them with pity.

And again, maybe 'ANA' is acting out of line here. I do not know. I do know the above business model needs rethinking or to have strategies that are wider to cover for eventualities in the market.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathanael Robinson
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
WetRock wrote:

We are not talking about a strictly mom 'n pop brick and mortar not being able to withstand local market pressure. We are talking about a small shop speculating and using online retailing to cover their behinds. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that they got caught in the middle trying to play it both ways.

Why is this not standard business practices? I can go to Targets and Barnes and Nobles in my area to buy ANA games (among other publishers) for deep discounts, sometimes below 30% of MSRP. Indeed, this does not only apply to games, but toys, clothing, home goods, etc. The problem that this poses for the LGS is that they probably could have sold the game for closer to MSRP online than they could have when the clearance is limited to their physical location.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
In memorium. Bob Hoover died 25 Oct 2016 at 94. In WWII he was shot down in a Spitfire and stole an FW-190 to escape. He spent decades at air shows flying Ole Yeller, shown
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
There are a lot better ways they could have "helped the little guy". That phrase was just a nice PR soundbite.

I don't think it's about PR. It's about legal CYA.

For nearly a century, price-fixing was automatically illegal, until the 5-4 USSC decision in Leegin.

So, now, everyone who fixes prices blathers on about how they're insuring a better customer experience, copying Leegin's wording.

"...it's becoming a nightmare operating a business," ... "It just makes it so difficult to compete,"--a retailer quoted in http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121901920116148325

In May [2008], attorneys general from 35 states -- including New York, California, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania -- wrote to Congress urging passage of a law to make policies like these illegal. "As the chief antitrust enforcers in our respective States, we know all too well the harm that can be caused" by pricing pacts, the letter says.--http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121901920116148325

(Not commenting on the above outside of RSP.)

I do not believe ANA is trying to insure a better customer experience. What they're doing is giving big retailers like Target a safe harbor so they neither have to be service-competitive with bricks-and-mortar game stores or price-competitive with online game store. You explain to me how Target is a better customer experience than my FLGS (or my OLGS, for that matter, which has far better selection than Target).

(I don't really mean to pick on Target. They're a fine store. They're just the store I know is carrying ANA. Maybe B&N is, too.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tall_Walt wrote:
For nearly a century, price-fixing was automatically illegal, until the 5-4 USSC decision in Leegin.

Regardless of how you feel about ANA's move, it is not price fixing.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Rowlands
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
JRietveld wrote:
Shift to an in-store sale. I do one a year on Black Friday, with prices up to 80% off. I do have to hold inventory longer than if it was quarterly, but my customers absolutely love the sale, and I sell oodles of games at that sale. I drool at Seattle's customer base to pull in far more customers for a sale.


Maggibot is a friend and a coworker of mine, and I did want to clarify one element here. The quarterly sales she is referring to are in-store sales. When she quotes people online saying “why are you selling those things at those crazy discounts" she is referring to comments made typically via social media regarding our in store sales.

---------- My view -------------

From my perspective, the frustration lies in the fact that ANA is removing a tool from FLGSs while still allowing large companies to take advantage of those tools. For instance, Target.com is selling Small World right now for well under MSRP.

It's also worth noting that our stores will not be crippled by this change. It hurts, but it isn't business-breaking for us. However, this change affects smaller stores than ours disproportionately, and as advocates of LGSs everywhere that worries some of us.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NPCChris wrote:
JRietveld wrote:
Shift to an in-store sale. I do one a year on Black Friday, with prices up to 80% off. I do have to hold inventory longer than if it was quarterly, but my customers absolutely love the sale, and I sell oodles of games at that sale. I drool at Seattle's customer base to pull in far more customers for a sale.


Maggibot is a friend and a coworker of mine, and I did want to clarify one element here. The quarterly sales she is referring to are in-store sales. When she quotes people online saying “why are you selling those things at those crazy discounts" she is referring to comments made typically via social media regarding our in store sales.
It read that she was saying those sales could no longer be offered, so I assumed they were online.

Quote:
From my perspective, the frustration lies in the fact that ANA is removing a tool from FLGSs while still allowing large companies to take advantage of those tools. For instance, Target.com is selling Small World right now for well under MSRP.
I agree, and hope that ANAs plan will somehow address this. I know plenty of stores that are skeptical, and can't blame them. In a previous store I owned, in a completely different industry, I had a major vendor institute a policy that on the surface was meant to be a massive benefit to certain stores. It was at first, and then upper level management changed, flipped the policy around, and it was terrible for us. I sold that store.

Quote:
It's also worth noting that our stores will not be crippled by this change. It hurts, but it isn't business-breaking for us.
Judging by the pictures I have seen, I can indeed assume you will weather it just fine.

Quote:
However, this change affects smaller stores than ours disproportionately, and as advocates of LGSs everywhere that worries some of us.
If I had spent my $10k on new software 7 years ago when I was newly opened, this change could have driven me out of business. I can see how the timing could be disastrous for some, but hopefully the change will do the opposite long-term - if it stays long term.

Can you address why she says you are paying more for ANA product? I now pay an average of 0.5% less per item, depending which sub-brand within ANA.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Kokaly
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NPCChris wrote:


---------- My view -------------

From my perspective, the frustration lies in the fact that ANA is removing a tool from FLGSs while still allowing large companies to take advantage of those tools. For instance, Target.com is selling Small World right now for well under MSRP.

It's also worth noting that our stores will not be crippled by this change. It hurts, but it isn't business-breaking for us. However, this change affects smaller stores than ours disproportionately, and as advocates of LGSs everywhere that worries some of us.


I think the Target.com example is a good indicator of where they are going. To grow at the rate expected as a public company, they won't depend on the game-centric FLGS or OLGS to thrive. They need Targets, Walmarts, Amazons, etc. to sell more of their stuff. If they maintain or grow the small FLGS sales, it's a bonus. If they keep the current OLGS sales going where they make a premium now, it's a bonus. The bulk of the money has to come from pumping out a lot more units to the big boys.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if they hadn't been acquiring some of the better companies and/or brands to do this. The threat of them failing and taking the previously great companies down with them is what I don't like about all this.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marguerite Cottrell
United States
Seattle
WA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hi all! this is a fairly awkward discussion i wasn't invited into.
I also would like to note that this was a podcast delivered unrehearsed and in spoken word. In writing, i might have a better chance at clarification of some points y'all are trying to discuss.
i will not be addressing these points here as i feel fairly uncomfortable.

thanks for the discussion -it might be appreciated in future for this to be a conversation WITH and not ABOUT someone else.
48 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Rowlands
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
JRietveld wrote:
It read that she was saying those sales could no longer be offered, so I assumed they were online.


I believe it comes off as more clear on the episode itself. She just mentions that our in-store sales may have to be more extreme. (to compensate for not being able to sell some games online during the year)

Quote:
Can you address why she says you are paying more for ANA product? I now pay an average of 0.5% less per item, depending which sub-brand within ANA.


Sorry, but I don't have any insight into that. - I work in a different department.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mtkokaly wrote:
I think the Target.com example is a good indicator of where they are going. To grow at the rate expected as a public company, they won't depend on the game-centric FLGS or OLGS to thrive. They need Targets, Walmarts, Amazons, etc. to sell more of their stuff.

The big box stores will only ever account for a small percentage of certain game sales, and most of those will be in the heavily recognizable items - Ticket to Ride, Catan, etc. Target will never do most games justice. Of course, the profits and volume from games like TTR and Catan at big box stores certainly account for a lot of the company's profits.
Target has no interest in carrying much beyond that, as the demand is just not there to sell fast enough to justify shelf space.

ANA claims to understand it needs the B&M to create the demand required for growth. Could it be disingenuous double speak? Maybe. Is ANA just priming gullible game store owners onto their side before pulling out the rug? Possibly.

Or there could be some truth with what ANA is claiming to do.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
In memorium. Bob Hoover died 25 Oct 2016 at 94. In WWII he was shot down in a Spitfire and stole an FW-190 to escape. He spent decades at air shows flying Ole Yeller, shown
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JRietveld wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
For nearly a century, price-fixing was automatically illegal, until the 5-4 USSC decision in Leegin.

Regardless of how you feel about ANA's move, it is not price fixing.

Yes it is. It's just moved, because of Leegin, from illegal price fixing to legal price fixing. You fix the prices in your stores, correct? The price is fixed at whatever level you say it is. It's just legal for you to do so: you're not telling other people what to do or colluding. If you colluded with other retailers, "Let's all charge MSRP+20%," that would be illegal price fixing, an anti-trust law violation.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/price%20fixing

I probably should have noted that the USSC decision emphasized that Leegin was a special case, not applicable to all situations. One could infer that in a commodity market, which board games are not, it would still be illegal.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathanael Robinson
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Maggibot wrote:
hi all! this is a fairly awkward discussion i wasn't invited into.
I also would like to note that this was a podcast delivered unrehearsed and in spoken word. In writing, i might have a better chance at clarification of some points y'all are trying to discuss.
i will not be addressing these points here as i feel fairly uncomfortable.

thanks for the discussion -it might be appreciated in future for this to be a conversation WITH and not ABOUT someone else.


My apologies if you were not expecting this. I don't think that your character is at all at the center of this particular conversation; it is presented here only as anecdotal evidence about commercial policies within the industry, and it is only being discussed as such. I found the comments unique because they break out of the theorizing about the rights of the publisher vs. the free market, which tend toward the abstract. Should it become personal, I believe other posters would react, even involving the moderators if necessary.

That said, you offered these opinions in a public forum. Dukes of Dice is not a private conversation, but a publicized podcast that is aggregated and promoted by major board game sites (Bgg and Dice Tower) and podcast platoforms (libsyn and stitcher, e.g.). You, yourself, recommended the specific episode of the podcast on your vlog (if I am not mistaken), being a tacit approval of the episode's content. Your comments came to my attention because they were brought up in the comments in two live streams this weekend (one being Nick Meenachan's); I've noticed today that they were also referenced twice in the Hot Deals thread, when dealing with Scythe. Perhaps your position requires more nuance, and I hope that you provide that in the future. However, you have presented yourself as spokesperson for the hobby and the industry, and your comments were on the record, whether I transcribed them or not. And if your words have an effect on the conversation, you should take it as evidence that you are making an impact on the hobby.
20 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tall_Walt wrote:
JRietveld wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
For nearly a century, price-fixing was automatically illegal, until the 5-4 USSC decision in Leegin.

Regardless of how you feel about ANA's move, it is not price fixing.

Yes it is. It's just moved, because of Leegin, from illegal price fixing to legal price fixing. You fix the prices in your stores, correct? The price is fixed at whatever level you say it is. It's just legal for you to do so: you're not telling other people what to do or colluding. If you colluded with other retailers, "Let's all charge MSRP+20%," that would be illegal price fixing, an anti-trust law violation.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/price%20fixing

I probably should have noted that the USSC decision emphasized that Leegin was a special case, not applicable to all situations. One could infer that in a commodity market, which board games are not, it would still be illegal.

As per the definition you quoted above, ANA is not price fixing. Better?

Yes, one could say me setting pricing in my store is price fixing, but it's disingenuous to act as if that is what you meant. Yesterday I had an employee find an incorrectly labeled game. He brought it to the desk, I printed a new tag - I fixed the price. We could come up with all sorts of potential different definitions of two words put together.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Rietveld
United States
Zeeland
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bad Thoughts wrote:
Maggibot wrote:
hi all! this is a fairly awkward discussion i wasn't invited into.
I also would like to note that this was a podcast delivered unrehearsed and in spoken word. In writing, i might have a better chance at clarification of some points y'all are trying to discuss.
i will not be addressing these points here as i feel fairly uncomfortable.

thanks for the discussion -it might be appreciated in future for this to be a conversation WITH and not ABOUT someone else.


My apologies if you were not expecting this. I don't think that your character is at all at the center of this particular conversation; it is presented here only as anecdotal evidence about commercial policies within the industry, and it is only being discussed as such. I found the comments unique because they break out of the theorizing about the rights of the publisher vs. the free market, which tend toward the abstract. Should it become personal, I believe other posters would react, even involving the moderators if necessary.

That said, you offered these opinions in a public forum. Dukes of Dice is not a private conversation, but a publicized podcast that is aggregated and promoted by major board game sites (Bgg and Dice Tower) and podcast platoforms (libsyn and stitcher, e.g.). You, yourself, recommended the specific episode of the podcast on your vlog (if I am not mistaken), being a tacit approval of the episode's content. Your comments came to my attention because they were brought up in the comments in two live streams this weekend (one being Nick Meenachan's); I've noticed today that they were also referenced twice in the Hot Deals thread, when dealing with Scythe. Perhaps your position requires more nuance, and I hope that you provide that in the future. However, you have presented yourself as spokesperson for the hobby and the industry, and your comments were on the record, whether I transcribed them or not. And if your words have an effect on the conversation, you should take it as evidence that you are making an impact on the hobby.

I enjoy discussions and unpacking dissenting opinions from those that have a very similar background to me. That is one of the great things about all of this right now - same background, same experience, same results - opposite opinions. I'm glad it made it here, and it has already refined my own opinions in these matters.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Sites
United States
Lake Stevens
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bad Thoughts wrote:
Maggibot wrote:
hi all! this is a fairly awkward discussion i wasn't invited into.
I also would like to note that this was a podcast delivered unrehearsed and in spoken word. In writing, i might have a better chance at clarification of some points y'all are trying to discuss.
i will not be addressing these points here as i feel fairly uncomfortable.

thanks for the discussion -it might be appreciated in future for this to be a conversation WITH and not ABOUT someone else.


My apologies if you were not expecting this. I don't think that your character is at all at the center of this particular conversation; it is presented here only as anecdotal evidence about commercial policies within the industry, and it is only being discussed as such. I found the comments unique because they break out of the theorizing about the rights of the publisher vs. the free market, which tend toward the abstract. Should it become personal, I believe other posters would react, even involving the moderators if necessary.

That said, you offered these opinions in a public forum. Dukes of Dice is not a private conversation, but a publicized podcast that is aggregated and promoted by major board game sites (Bgg and Dice Tower) and podcast platoforms (libsyn and stitcher, e.g.). You, yourself, recommended the specific episode of the podcast on your vlog (if I am not mistaken), being a tacit approval of the episode's content. Your comments came to my attention because they were brought up in the comments in two live streams this weekend (one being Nick Meenachan's); I've noticed today that they were also referenced twice in the Hot Deals thread, when dealing with Scythe. Perhaps your position requires more nuance, and I hope that you provide that in the future. However, you have presented yourself as spokesperson for the hobby and the industry, and your comments were on the record, whether I transcribed them or not. And if your words have an effect on the conversation, you should take it as evidence that you are making an impact on the hobby.


I'm pretty sure she doesn't need you to explain to her how the podcasting/blogging/vlogging business works.
20 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.