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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can push/carry be used to gift a move action? rss

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Excessive Force
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Browsing through the rules available online, I've spotted something I'm not sure I have understood correctly.

If I read the "push action" correctly, it says that I can push a willing investigator twice using my two actions, effectively moving us both two spaces. However, I don't see anything saying that the pushed investigator's actions are affected negatively. I.e. I have effectively converted 1 of my actions into an extra movement action for the other investigator.

Anyone see something I have missed? Or perhaps I have misunderstood something?

Of course, it might be the intended effect and could be explained by helping wounded investigators move faster (if there is such a wound card ), my investigator yelling at the other investigator to move etc.

It caught my eye though, when looking for how to control an investigator gone insane...
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Julia
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Point here is that when you move you may move up to two spaces. When you push, you move you and the fellow investigator just one space (so, you move 2 figures 1 space in stead of moving 1 figure 2 spaces).

The pushed investigator has no penalty, but the pusher moves slower than usual
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Excessive Force
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Point here is that when you move you may move up to two spaces. When you push, you move you and the fellow investigator just one space (so, you move 2 figures 1 space in stead of moving 1 figure 2 spaces).

The pushed investigator has no penalty, but the pusher moves slower than usual


That's my point though.

An example: A token of interest is 4 spaces away from two investigators starting in the same space. If each investigator moves independently, none of them can reach and investigate the token this turn. However, using push the 1st investigator can move them both twice, and the 2nd investigator can then move and investigate the token this turn.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Excessive Force wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Point here is that when you move you may move up to two spaces. When you push, you move you and the fellow investigator just one space (so, you move 2 figures 1 space in stead of moving 1 figure 2 spaces).

The pushed investigator has no penalty, but the pusher moves slower than usual


That's my point though.

An example: A token of interest is 4 spaces away from two investigators starting in the same space. If each investigator moves independently, none of them can reach and investigate the token this turn. However, using push the 1st investigator can move them both twice, and the 2nd investigator can then move and investigate the token this turn.


Yes, that would be perfectly legal.
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soak man
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Excessive Force wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Point here is that when you move you may move up to two spaces. When you push, you move you and the fellow investigator just one space (so, you move 2 figures 1 space in stead of moving 1 figure 2 spaces).

The pushed investigator has no penalty, but the pusher moves slower than usual


That's my point though.

An example: A token of interest is 4 spaces away from two investigators starting in the same space. If each investigator moves independently, none of them can reach and investigate the token this turn. However, using push the 1st investigator can move them both twice, and the 2nd investigator can then move and investigate the token this turn.


Yes, that would be perfectly legal.


Per Learn to Play guide (pg 6): "Move Action
The investigator moves his investigator figure up to two spaces,
moving one space at a time, from one space to an adjacent space."

If you may move up to 2 spaces with one move action, both investigators could get to the token as they could use both of their permitted two actions to move (4 spaces). If you push twice with both characters, you would move yourself and the other 1 space for each push (effectively 2 spaces for investigator 1, and then 2 spaces for investigator 2).

If I'm doing it right, both end up with you able to both reach the token with 0 actions left and to no distinct advantage (and in fact, if one of them is using Rita, they are moving less than they would otherwise bed able).

I believe pushing is useful when someone becomes wounded. Per the Learn to Play instructions (pg 12): "While Wounded,an investigator cannot perform the move action more than once each round."
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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soakman wrote:
If you push twice with both characters, you would move yourself and the other 1 space for each push (effectively 2 spaces for investigator 1, and then 2 spaces for investigator 2).

If I'm doing it right, both end up with you able to both reach the token with 0 actions left and to no distinct advantage
I think OP had this in mind:
1st character, 1st action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
1st character, 2nd action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
2nd character, 1st action: Move the remaining two spaces to the Search token
2nd character, 2nd action: Investigate (or however it's called) the Search token
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Jay Eye
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Push action is not a regular action, as far as I understood. As is the steal action, as both are not mentioned besides the allowed actions during the investigator phase. Those actions come into play if an investigator gets insane due to loosing sanity.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Exilfranke wrote:
Push action is not a regular action, as far as I understood. As is the steal action, as both are not mentioned besides the allowed actions during the investigator phase. Those actions come into play if an investigator gets insane due to loosing sanity.


This is not correct. You can use any of the "Rarely Used Actions" whenever you like. It's just that, most commonly, you would only use them once someone has gone insane (which is why they're rarely used).
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Jan Probst
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You don't actually need to be insane to want to burn the house down if it's infested with Deep Ones and such. arrrh
 
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Jay Eye
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Exilfranke wrote:
Push action is not a regular action, as far as I understood. As is the steal action, as both are not mentioned besides the allowed actions during the investigator phase. Those actions come into play if an investigator gets insane due to loosing sanity.


This is not correct. You can use any of the "Rarely Used Actions" whenever you like. It's just that, most commonly, you would only use them once someone has gone insane (which is why they're rarely used).


But why are those actions not mentioned in the avaiable actions an investigator can perform during investigator turn? I'll maybe houserule that to prevent us from pushing one another through the mansion.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Exilfranke wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Exilfranke wrote:
Push action is not a regular action, as far as I understood. As is the steal action, as both are not mentioned besides the allowed actions during the investigator phase. Those actions come into play if an investigator gets insane due to loosing sanity.


This is not correct. You can use any of the "Rarely Used Actions" whenever you like. It's just that, most commonly, you would only use them once someone has gone insane (which is why they're rarely used).


But why are those actions not mentioned in the avaiable actions an investigator can perform during investigator turn? I'll maybe houserule that to prevent us from pushing one another through the mansion.


So if a fire appears, you're not going to allow anyone to put out fire unless at least one of them is insane?
 
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Jan Probst
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They're just moved to a separate section to keep the basic rules to a slimmer footprint? Also to maybe discourage new investigators from developing a "burn it down first, don't bother asking questions" approach to investigating, it's uncouth.
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Jay Eye
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Exilfranke wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Exilfranke wrote:
Push action is not a regular action, as far as I understood. As is the steal action, as both are not mentioned besides the allowed actions during the investigator phase. Those actions come into play if an investigator gets insane due to loosing sanity.


This is not correct. You can use any of the "Rarely Used Actions" whenever you like. It's just that, most commonly, you would only use them once someone has gone insane (which is why they're rarely used).


But why are those actions not mentioned in the avaiable actions an investigator can perform during investigator turn? I'll maybe houserule that to prevent us from pushing one another through the mansion.


So if a fire appears, you're not going to allow anyone to put out fire unless at least one of them is insane?


Exactly. Don't touch muh fire.
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Chris J Davis
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Weltenreiter wrote:
You don't actually need to be insane to want to burn the house down if it's infested with Deep Ones and such. arrrh


 
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Jan Probst
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Exilfranke wrote:
Exactly. Don't touch muh fire.
Sounds like you're a Cylonpyromaniac.
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Weltenreiter wrote:
it's uncouth.


 
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soak man
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haroth9842 wrote:
soakman wrote:
If you push twice with both characters, you would move yourself and the other 1 space for each push (effectively 2 spaces for investigator 1, and then 2 spaces for investigator 2).

If I'm doing it right, both end up with you able to both reach the token with 0 actions left and to no distinct advantage
I think OP had this in mind:
1st character, 1st action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
1st character, 2nd action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
2nd character, 1st action: Move the remaining two spaces to the Search token
2nd character, 2nd action: Investigate (or however it's called) the Search token


This is also assuming you don't want to do ANY other actions and happen to both be on the same space with no monster in your way.

I imagine even if you push/carry you need to do an evasion check if you're moving away from a monster.
 
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Philip Kitching
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soakman wrote:
haroth9842 wrote:
soakman wrote:
If you push twice with both characters, you would move yourself and the other 1 space for each push (effectively 2 spaces for investigator 1, and then 2 spaces for investigator 2).

If I'm doing it right, both end up with you able to both reach the token with 0 actions left and to no distinct advantage
I think OP had this in mind:
1st character, 1st action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
1st character, 2nd action: Push the 2nd character 1 space
2nd character, 1st action: Move the remaining two spaces to the Search token
2nd character, 2nd action: Investigate (or however it's called) the Search token


This is also assuming you don't want to do ANY other actions and happen to both be on the same space with no monster in your way.

I imagine even if you push/carry you need to do an evasion check if you're moving away from a monster.

The pusher needs to pass an evade check.
If the pushed investigator resisted, then their movement would be involuntary and not need a check. If they didn't resist, I'd guess that it was still involuntary and no additional evade check was required.

Using a push to help another investigator avoid fire or a monster seems perfectly thematic.
 
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