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H C
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Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
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Best pure, logic-driven deduction games? (Like Sleuth but not like Hanabi/Resistance/Coup/Letters from Whitechapel/Tragedy Looper)

So no hidden movement, bluffing, and probably no hidden role in the traditional social deduction sense. I want it to be everyone for themselves and just using logic to approach the solution.

Games that tackle what I refer to:
-Sleuth
-Code 777 (I think, havent played)
-Deduce or Die
-Salem

Not sure what else. I think Mystery of the Abbey or Black Vienna may qualify too. Anyway, what is the best one or two of them, among your mental options and the ones Ive listed?

Conditions:
- competitive
- preferably under an hour, 90 minutes tops
- scales well but no particular player counts. No solo.
- something concrete for what we solve and clearly defined (not like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective)
- difficulty wise, adjustable difficulty would be nice but I guess slightly harder and less/no luck?
- pure logic prefferred

If possible, Id also like NO player elimination or official variants for nonplayer elimination. Low/no downtime is preferred strongly too. And the more replayable the better of course, but I think that shouldnt be an issue in deduction games.
 
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Ryan McGuire
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
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NowOrNever88 wrote:

Conditions:
- competitive
- preferably under an hour, 90 minutes tops
- scales well but no particular player counts. No solo.
- something concrete for what we solve and clearly defined (not like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective)
- difficulty wise, adjustable difficulty would be nice but I guess slightly harder and less/no luck?
- pure logic prefferred

If possible, Id also like NO player elimination or official variants for nonplayer elimination. Low/no downtime is preferred strongly too. And the more replayable the better of course, but I think that shouldnt be an issue in deduction games.


Zendo

ECompetitive - check.
EUnder an hour - check.
EScales well - well... kinda. Works for 3-6 players. There is a two player variant as well, but it's a different game with the same basic mechanic.
ESomething concrete - I don't know the Sherlock Holmes game of which you speak, but I believe Zendo fits.
EAdjustable difficulty - check.
ENo luck - There are no dice or shuffled decks of cards, but there is hidden information and you may take a chance and get somethign wrong.
EPure logic - (see previous answer)
ENo player elimincation - check.
ELittle downtime - There is more than enough listening and thinking to do during opponents' turns. There is also the "mondo" option during a turn that involves all players.

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H C
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Philadelphia
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ryanker wrote:
NowOrNever88 wrote:

Conditions:
- competitive
- preferably under an hour, 90 minutes tops
- scales well but no particular player counts. No solo.
- something concrete for what we solve and clearly defined (not like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective)
- difficulty wise, adjustable difficulty would be nice but I guess slightly harder and less/no luck?
- pure logic prefferred

If possible, Id also like NO player elimination or official variants for nonplayer elimination. Low/no downtime is preferred strongly too. And the more replayable the better of course, but I think that shouldnt be an issue in deduction games.


Zendo

ECompetitive - check.
EUnder an hour - check.
EScales well - well... kinda. Works for 3-6 players. There is a two player variant as well, but it's a different game with the same basic mechanic.
ESomething concrete - I don't know the Sherlock Holmes game of which you speak, but I believe Zendo fits.
EAdjustable difficulty - check.
ENo luck - There are no dice or shuffled decks of cards, but there is hidden information and you may take a chance and get somethign wrong.
EPure logic - (see previous answer)
ENo player elimincation - check.
ELittle downtime - There is more than enough listening and thinking to do during opponents' turns. There is also the "mondo" option during a turn that involves all players.



I want something more like

Turn 1: clue gained
Turn 2: different clue gained
...
Turn 17: different clue gained. I get an epiphany and things align.

I know Zendo has this in parts but I want some a bit more rigorous. Also I want something where we are all doing the same thing not 1Vothers
 
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John Drake
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
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Think Str8! may be something to look at... but it's not as brain-burning as Deduce or Die. And the components are really disappointing. But the game is quite good.
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Greg Aleknevicus
Canada
Victoria
BC
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Black Vienna most definitely qualifies. If you're curious, check out the following puzzle I published many years ago:

http://www.thegamesjournal.com/puzzles/BlackVienna1.shtml

You might also consider playing a game online at a site I run:

http://www.aleknevicus.com/bv/

There's no AI so you'll need to gather a few friends to play (four players is the preferred number).

Good luck!
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Michael Debije
Netherlands
Eindhoven
The Netherlands
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Watson & Holmes: From the Diaries of 221B.
 
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Annemarie Post
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How about Alchemists?
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Simona Dostalova
Czech Republic
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I think that Think Str8! has exactly what you want. That said, the components truly are terrible but the game is great.

Also, Alchemists should scratch that itch for you
 
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James C
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For what it's worth ....

Mastermind
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Robert Bennett
United States
Greenville
South Carolina
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You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.
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plus one for Black Vienna. Fits all your requirements except adjustable difficulty. It's always hard--at least we think so. Great game!
 
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Stephanie Prince
Canada
Lacombe
AB
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Maybe Antidote?
 
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Johannes Hihn
Germany
Walddorfhäslach
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Perfect Alibi is a lot like Sleuth but adds player powers.

You could also take a look at Mayday!Mayday!. At first glance it looks like another Resistance / Werewolf type of game but actually it's a pretty pure deduction game.

From a game point of view I highly recommend both of those.
 
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Dan Williams
United Kingdom
Worcester
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+1 for Alchemists!
 
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Rasmus Helms
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Aalborg
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+1 for Think Str8! It's an excellent game and pretty much the thing you're looking for.
The components go down in history as the worst imaginable, but doesn't subtract too much from the great design of the game.

Alchemists might work, although I found Think Str8 to be the better deduction game. (I might still like Alchemists more overall, though)
 
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(ɹnʎʞ)
Germany
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Le Fantôme de l'Opéra

2 players (competitive)
Easy rules
Great components
Language independent
Random board setup
Adjustable difficulty
Relatively short playtime
Fast setup and breakdown
Small table footprint

 
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Mark Jackson
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
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You fell in a pit on the first turn. Good job!
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Alchemists is rad but I wouldn't call it a pure deduction game at all. There a lot more going on beyond the deduction part.

I was going to recommend Zendo and Think Str8, so +1 for those.
 
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