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Subject: Trump is truly one evil bastard rss

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It is not enough that he is sending his vile lackey Roger Stone to whip up hatred against the father of a fallen soldier who dared to speak up against his bigotry, but now another adviser is pushing a theory that the fallen soldier may have been a Muslim Terrorist just biding his time waiting for the chance to kill US Soldiers

"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

The adviser, Al Baldasaro, tweeted a link to an article from Shoebat.com, a fringe anti-Islam conspiracy website. The article also suggests (without any evidence) that Humayun Khan, who was awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze, was a jihadist who joined the military to kill Americans."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/08/01/3803814/trump-a...

Seriously, is Trump this hateful or is he just mentally ill. There is really nothing else to explain it. How can any sentient human being be supporting this miserable waste of a human being after this.

PS I actually followed the link to the source of this vile attack. Visiting that site will literally make you feel like you need a shower
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flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.


No, it really isn't.
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That is the standard operating procedure for when times get rough for your campaign resort to 'patriotism'.
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flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.



If that is your opinion after listening to the speech that father made, then you are just one sad and twisted human being. Its actually called speaking out against bigotry
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flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.

Literally no voters care about "hard logic" over emotion. We all just have different emotional triggers. Just the act of voting is enough to set the human confirmation bias in motion.

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flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.



If bringing up examples in which bigotry leads to false conclusions isn't a legitimate way to argue against bigotry, what is?
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flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.



I'd go with Kumitedad, you didn't listen to the goddamn speech.

The whole POINT is that muslims are Americans too, and are willing to make a sacrifice for the US beyond the concerns of religion, along with a healthy dose of 'not all islam == isis'.

I'll grant that's a pretty complex and difficult thought to process however.
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damiangerous wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.

Literally no voters care about "hard logic" over emotion. We all just have different emotional triggers. Just the act of voting is enough to set the human confirmation bias in motion.



Except this is less about appeal to emotion, more about two points:

1) ISIS isn't representitive of muslims as a whole.
2) You can support your nation, and die for it, even as elements in it are advocating hate for you.

~~~

Would drawing on this story be any less inspiring than drawing on the stories of the 442nd infantry battallion in WW2?
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windsagio wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.

No, it really isn't.


That's your opinion, mine is different. Any time someone uses an appeal to emotion instead of hard logic to further their cause, it is a big clue that they don't really have an argument.

Literally no voters care about "hard logic" over emotion. We all just have different emotional triggers. Just the act of voting is enough to set the human confirmation bias in motion.



Except this is less about appeal to emotion, more about two points:

1) ISIS isn't representitive of muslims as a whole.
2) You can support your nation, and die for it, even as elements in it are advocating hate for you.

~~~

Would drawing on this story be any less inspiring than drawing on the stories of the 442nd infantry battallion in WW2?

I'm simply criticizing the person I replied to about his apparent belief that a) all "appeals to emotion" are equivalent and b) he is somehow above them.
 
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flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.


I think you can argue it is scummy, but I'm really hard-pressed to think of how using a positive example to your advantage and dragging the name of a dead man and his still living family through the mud because they called you out on your bullshit really is at the same level.

YMMV, of course, but I do feel it is fairly inhumane to equate them?
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flamespeak wrote:

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.


On a side side note, the RNC tried to pave their way on the corpse of a dead government employee in Libya and a direct emotional appeal that held Clinton "personally responsible".

I can only assume your scum-o-meter was off the charts at that one.
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rinelk wrote:
flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.


No, it really isn't.
To a degree, this is swift boating all over again, a coward criticizing a hero for not thinking the coward is a great man.

But this also sums up how disgusting (not evil) the GOP are, the fact they will blanket the name of a dead patriot (a real one not the "MA Flag, Ma picket fence" variety out of petty political spite sums up everything about them .

But I disagree that the DNC are as bad, that speech was about how just being a Muslim does not make you the enemy. If the GO and Donny were not demonizing Muslims then you might have a point. But like black solders coming home in WW2 Muslim ones (and their families) are facing hostility because of what they are, and not what they did.
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flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.


The Bergdahls weren't available I guess.
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flamespeak wrote:
Christ, again people are speaking up for this guy and approving what the DNC did.

He had no reason to be there EXCEPT to appeal to emotion. This was a great time to talk about how exactly Hillary will accomplish goals, policies and procedures she would implement, and, just like the RNC, instead it was all 'muh feels' and 'PATRIOTISM'!

This guy's son died serving the country, and that is to be respected, but what in the heck does it have to do with the Democratic party? What does it have to do with Hillary's nomination? The answer is nothing. It was just an attack on Trump. I am not a fan of Trump and he is just as guilty at doing the exact same garbage tactics that annoy the piss out of me, but for some reason people call him out on it and not Hillary. Call them both out.

How are you going to tackle the problem with youth unemployment rates? How are you going to fix the housing market issue? Do you have any idea how long the US will still be involved in foreign wars?

This entire political campaign has been mud-slinging, appeals to emotion, and absolutely no solid strategies other than flimsy promises being proposed. This entire election cycle has been a bad joke and as far as I am concerned Hillary and Trump is basically the same thing as a bowl of shit looking at itself in the mirror.
Because of the Islamophobia being pedaled by Donny.

Because in the USA today people are saying "all Muslims hate freedom" or "Islam is a religion of hate". Because the Dems are the party that is trying to adress that, unlike the Repcons who are pedaling it.

Maybe if people stopped demanding that Muslims prove they do not support terror people like his would not have to stand on any platform they can to show people they do not support terrorism.

Maybe Donny should invite him to speak at a rally too, so Donny can acknowledge that not all Muslim hate the USA.
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Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?
 
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sfox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?


When did you stop beating your wife?

Come on, Shawn. What proof do you have it's true?
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flamespeak wrote:
Meh, Trump's an asshat, that is hardly news. Even his supporters should not have any problem acknowledging that.

On a side note, the DNC paving their way on the corpse of a dead soldier and having a direct appeal to emotion is equally scummy.



BENGHAZI!!!
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sfox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?


I also don'the have any proof that he isn't a reptilian beast sent by Nazis on the dark side of the moon.
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Trump is a truly evil bastard and he's surrounding himself with evil bastards. Alert. Alert.

---

Trump's proper response was, "I'm sorry for X's loss. His son was a true hero and he raised a good point that people of all faiths can be american and support the american dream. We have valid concerns about violent, murderous islamic factions using general immigration as a cover to sneak into the country and our efforts will be targeted towards reducing that risk. Part of that will including tighter immigration controls." or something like that. I don't agree with that entirely but it seems like what HE could have said that would have been decent while holding on to his positions.

But he really comes across as having no class or empathy. And lacking the wisdom or intelligence to fake those qualities. The fact that he raised a couple relatively normal kids is a redeeming factor.

http://www.people.com/article/donald-trump-children-family-r...

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/05/donald-trump-kids-nor...

It sounds like he was a doting father when there ( kids playing and making noise while he was doing business in the boardroom didn't set him off ) and part of it is a couple irish nannies (which isn't atypical for the very wealthy and powerful).

Despite that, he's just a terrible candidate and is likely to be a terrible president. He's too impulsive and too thin skinned and too often narcissistic.

And to be frank, I can't vote for a candidate who won't release their tax returns. That little part of presidential politics has always been hugely revealing and shows the difference between the mask and the person. When a candidate won't release their tax returns, I automatically assume something is seriously rotten in denmark. It's a dealbreaker for me. Not that the returns were necessary in Trump's case.
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sfox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?


If someone makes an accusation like that, the burden of proof is actually on the accuser now isn't it.

Really going to be buying in on mindlessly slandering a Gold Star Family? You also want proof the soldier was not planning on murdering his comrades before he died in the service of his country like the lie the other Trump surrogate is spreading?
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Kumitedad wrote:
sfox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?


If someone makes an accusation like that, the burden of proof is actually on the accuser now isn't it.

Really going to be buying in on mindlessly slandering a Gold Star Family? You also want proof the soldier was not planning on murdering his comrades before he died in the service of his country like the lie the other Trump surrogate is spreading?


The burden of proof is on the shoulders of the person making the claim. In this case the "official adviser". If he has no proof then he's full of shit (sounds like he is). If you flip it that way that, nothing is ever certain until it's disproven. Things like big foot, invisible pixies, pink unicorns and alien abductions are eqauly valid. Our entire legal system relies on the person who makes the claim has the burden of proof.
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flamespeak wrote:
Christ, again people are speaking up for this guy and approving what the DNC did.

He had no reason to be there EXCEPT to appeal to emotion. This was a great time to talk about how exactly Hillary will accomplish goals, policies and procedures she would implement, and, just like the RNC, instead it was all 'muh feels' and 'PATRIOTISM'!

This guy's son died serving the country, and that is to be respected, but what in the heck does it have to do with the Democratic party? What does it have to do with Hillary's nomination? The answer is nothing. It was just an attack on Trump. I am not a fan of Trump and he is just as guilty at doing the exact same garbage tactics that annoy the piss out of me, but for some reason people call him out on it and not Hillary. Call them both out.

How are you going to tackle the problem with youth unemployment rates? How are you going to fix the housing market issue? Do you have any idea how long the US will still be involved in foreign wars?

This entire political campaign has been mud-slinging, appeals to emotion, and absolutely no solid strategies other than flimsy promises being proposed. This entire election cycle has been a bad joke and as far as I am concerned Hillary and Trump is basically the same thing as a bowl of shit looking at itself in the mirror.
And even if you think that is as wrong as you are claiming, you still cannot say it is as wrong as denigrating the soldier in question, like you tried to claim. It's like the difference between unseemly and disgusting. AndrewRogue had it exactly right.
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sfox wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
"An official adviser to the Trump campaign has escalated the attacks on Khizr Khan, the gold star father who was critical of Trump at the Democratic convention, baselessly accusing him of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent.”

What proof do you have that this isn't true?


He doesn't pay his dues anymore at the I Hate America Club.
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I had a longer post, but maybe it was good I accidentally lost it.

What it boil down to is that both sides have had these speakers. DNC had these parents plus those who had families experience tragedies due to gun violence, and the RNC had families experience tragedies due to Benghazi and actions of illegal immigrants.

It may not be something I'd advocate doing, but neither side claims moral superiority on this one.

And, Trump going after those parents is in no way on the same level.

The way he did it, with very little compassion or empathy expressed, is something I do not ever recall seeing in a presidential campaign. They usually open up with a statement expressing their condolences or admiration for the efforts of the deceased. We did not have that here. He should have done it at the beginning. (quote below is the first statement between the two) The best he really ever does is give

Quote:
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if you saw this speech. But — there was a man named Khizr Khan speaking at the Democratic Convention last night. His son, Captain Humayun Khan, was killed serving in Iraq. And he had some — very tough questions for you. He said you wouldn't've even let his son in America. He—

TRUMP: He doesn't know. He doesn't know that. I saw him. He was — you know, very emotional and probably looked like — a nice guy to me. His wife — if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably — maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me. But plenty of people have written that. She — she was extremely quiet. And it looked like she had nothing to say. A lot of people have said that. And personally — I watched him. I wish him the best of luck, George—


Right there - your first statements are when you express your gratitude and admiration to the fallen. Instead, he is focused on himself and attacking.

I had never expected this. I expected Trump to go after them; I did not expect he would neither give his gratitude nor condolences before attacking.

You can say it's only PC to treat others with compassion or gratitude for the fallen, but it's more than that. It's about showing others the example of being a good person. Your first instincts need to be empathy/concern/well-being of people, not yourself and your position.

It is an election so yeah, they'll be disagreements, but that's why we talk about what matters most first and then go into those details after.

To chop them off completely sets a bad precedent and shows very poorly on the person who does it.
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xuzuthor wrote:
I had a longer post, but maybe it was good I accidentally lost it.

What it boil down to is that both sides have had these speakers. DNC had these parents plus those who had families experience tragedies due to gun violence, and the RNC had families experience tragedies due to Benghazi and actions of illegal immigrants.

It may not be something I'd advocate doing, but neither side claims moral superiority on this one.

And, Trump going after those parents is in no way on the same level.

The way he did it, with very little compassion or empathy expressed, is something I do not ever recall seeing in a presidential campaign. They usually open up with a statement expressing their condolences or admiration for the efforts of the deceased. We did not have that here. He should have done it at the beginning. (quote below is the first statement between the two) The best he really ever does is give

Quote:
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if you saw this speech. But — there was a man named Khizr Khan speaking at the Democratic Convention last night. His son, Captain Humayun Khan, was killed serving in Iraq. And he had some — very tough questions for you. He said you wouldn't've even let his son in America. He—

TRUMP: He doesn't know. He doesn't know that. I saw him. He was — you know, very emotional and probably looked like — a nice guy to me. His wife — if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably — maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me. But plenty of people have written that. She — she was extremely quiet. And it looked like she had nothing to say. A lot of people have said that. And personally — I watched him. I wish him the best of luck, George—


Right there - your first statements are when you express your gratitude and admiration to the fallen. Instead, he is focused on himself and attacking.

I had never expected this. I expected Trump to go after them; I did not expect he would neither give his gratitude nor condolences before attacking.

You can say it's only PC to treat others with compassion or gratitude for the fallen, but it's more than that. It's about showing others the example of being a good person. Your first instincts need to be empathy/concern/well-being of people, not yourself and your position.

It is an election so yeah, they'll be disagreements, but that's why we talk about what matters most first and then go into those details after.

To chop them off completely sets a bad precedent and shows very poorly on the person who does it.
I think that is (for most people) the issue, not that the RNC (or the DNC) played emotivness with grieving families, but that how, not just Donny, a sizeable chunk of conservative pundits have dealt with it.

It is the spite, the self righteous whining, the smears that have sickened people. I think the damage was done by trying to claim that in some way his success was comparable (as a sacrifice) to their loss.
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