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Subject: Box size rss

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Josh Worley
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10x10x2? Seriously?

Considering the old version in the FFG small rectangular box fit everything fine with room to spare (or a lot of room to spare if you tossed the insert), using a box almost the size of TTR is absolute overkill.
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Ben Rubinstein

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Yeah, I'm disappointed by this. But I'm happy that they changed the game end to 7 districts instead of 8, because my biggest complaint is that the game dragged on a bit too long.
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Ben Stanley
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Does anyone know of any other changes to the rules besides the 7 districts to end the game? (And all the new characters and new purple districts)

This game was one of my favorites when I first got into board gaming many years ago: it had strategy, bluffing, interesting decisions, simple rules, scaled to different sized groups well, and was highly portable.

Like others, I am disappointed the box size will eliminate one of the real appeals (portability) as one of my standard "bring along as an option just in case" games.
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epilepticemu wrote:
Yeah, I'm disappointed by this. But I'm happy that they changed the game end to 7 districts instead of 8, because my biggest complaint is that the game dragged on a bit too long.


Worth noting that he also includes characters/buildings that allow for rapid construction as well as the 7 building limit.

epilepticemu wrote:
Does anyone know of any other changes to the rules besides the 7 districts to end the game? (And all the new characters and new purple districts)


I've compiled what I know here https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1615236/differences-origina.... It's a small list but I am hoping to grow it as we discover more.
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John
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The character cards are larger and I presume that was the smallest box that would fit. If you own the old edition you could keep it as a travel edition.
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Ben Rubinstein

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zabdiel wrote:
I presume that was the smallest box that would fit.


That's adorable.
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Alex Limoges
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I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.
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matt tolman
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Solipsiste wrote:
I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


As a designer, I would love it if this were true (paying for the design, not the components) but this is definitely not the case. I think the assumption game companies make about customers is maybe true for a casual player, but that core gamers would probably be open to paying for quality/depth of experience. I myself have a huge leaning to the heft of the box, which always seems higher when the stuff barely fits inside. One of the reasons citadels is still in my collection is that it's a lot of game crammed into a tiny space. :)
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epilepticemu wrote:
zabdiel wrote:
I presume that was the smallest box that would fit.


That's adorable.

Thanks
 
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Yeah, I think most people think they are getting better value if the game comes in a bigger box and the box has a reasonable amount of stuff in. I doubt most games companies have much motivation to try to many boxes smaller. I have to admit that I'm not sure I can visualise a 10x10x2 box (presumably inches). Actually that it quite big.
 
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Garry Clarke
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10 x 10 x 2 for a card game?

Surely there would be no 'heft' to these boxes as they'll contain mostly air. Probably in danger of blowing away whenever someone breaks wind.

The publisher must think I'm stupid if I'm gonna by a game in a box like this.
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The MAIN reason Citadels is always in the game night bag to go to meetups is because it takes very little space. Hence, it gets played more than any other game I have. And we like it. Due to popularity, I will try to make the new one fit in the old space, and if it can't, it may not see game night nearly as much anymore.
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John
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toober wrote:
I will try to make the new one fit in the old space, and if it can't, it may not see game night nearly as much anymore.

I have some sleeved tarot sized cards and can confirm they do fit in the old box, along with the required number of district sized cards, gold & crown (from the original old version obviously), do it may all fit but it'll be tight. Obviously I removed the insert and I can't comment on the tokens or rules (but guessing you can do without the rules).
 
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Pauly Paul
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mopeymatt wrote:
Solipsiste wrote:
I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


As a designer, I would love it if this were true (paying for the design, not the components) but this is definitely not the case. I think the assumption game companies make about customers is maybe true for a casual player, but that core gamers would probably be open to paying for quality/depth of experience. I myself have a huge leaning to the heft of the box, which always seems higher when the stuff barely fits inside. One of the reasons citadels is still in my collection is that it's a lot of game crammed into a tiny space.


This is definitely a decision made with the casual customer in mind. I think they feel they already have the hobby gamer's money so the idea is to increase sales by going after the casual market.

However I wonder how long it will be before the desire for the casual market will actually reduce the sales by hobby gamers? As in you gain one but lose the other.

The reason I wonder this is because I will not be buying this game. I had heard Citadels is a good game and it sounds like the second edition is making some positive changes, so gameplay wise is the one to get. However I only have so much money and space so I have to weigh various factors against my available budget when making my purchasing decision. This one isn't making the cut with it's current box size.

I am reaching a tipping point where I am legitimately getting pissed at oversized boxes. I never used to consider the size of the box however as I collected more, my storage space shrunk. Soon I found myself running out of places to put my games and I had to sell some off to make run for others. This is coming from someone who is a bit of a collector. I still own my NES and all the games I had for it. I've never sold off a single video game in all my years of playing (SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4). So selling off a board game is actually a big deal (for me). If I had the space I would keep everything I bought.

I think the reason I get so annoyed is because it feels needless to me. Especially in situations where it's a reprint or second edition and the previous version was in a reasonable sized box. I get irked knowing I'm using up space I didn't have to, due to a marketing decision for a demographic I'm not part of. I'm not saying it's a totally valid annoyance, but it exists none the less and absolutely is informing my purchasing decisions going forward.
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Josh Worley
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zabdiel wrote:
I have to admit that I'm not sure I can visualise a 10x10x2 box (presumably inches). Actually that it quite big.


It's the same size as FFG's medium square box. So the same size as the X-Wing core set, LOTR Confrontation, etc.
 
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Ben Rubinstein

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venrondua wrote:
mopeymatt wrote:
[q="Solipsiste"]I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


This is coming from someone who is a bit of a collector. I still own my NES and all the games I had for it. I've never sold off a single video game in all my years of playing (SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4).


"A bit?"
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Pauly Paul
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epilepticemu wrote:
venrondua wrote:
mopeymatt wrote:
[q="Solipsiste"]I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


This is coming from someone who is a bit of a collector. I still own my NES and all the games I had for it. I've never sold off a single video game in all my years of playing (SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4).


"A bit?"


The bit part comes from the motivation. I suppose it depends on each individual's definition of "collector". I don't buy games solely for the collectible nature of it. Grabbing up limited release items and keeping them in shrink.

However I have come to realize that a part of my enjoyment from (board) gaming comes from owning the games. Of course I want to play them as well, but I just simply like having, the games that catch my interest.

So my motivations come from buying games I think are cool and fun first, and then the pleasure of owning them second. In my mind a collector would be someone who enjoys owning more than playing, or in some cases doesn't play at all. Simply owns and keeps in shrink.

That is why I said "a bit". I don't fit my own definition of "collector", however YMMV
 
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Josh Worley
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venrondua wrote:
epilepticemu wrote:
venrondua wrote:
mopeymatt wrote:
[q="Solipsiste"]I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


This is coming from someone who is a bit of a collector. I still own my NES and all the games I had for it. I've never sold off a single video game in all my years of playing (SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4).


"A bit?"


The bit part comes from the motivation. I suppose it depends on each individual's definition of "collector". I don't buy games solely for the collectible nature of it. Grabbing up limited release items and keeping them in shrink.

However I have come to realize that a part of my enjoyment from (board) gaming comes from owning the games. Of course I want to play them as well, but I just simply like having, the games that catch my interest.

So my motivations come from buying games I think are cool and fun first, and then the pleasure of owning them second. In my mind a collector would be someone who enjoys owning more than playing, or in some cases doesn't play at all. Simply owns and keeps in shrink.

That is why I said "a bit". I don't fit my own definition of "collector", however YMMV


Your problem was you never owned a Sega Genesis. You would have loved it and would have gotten rid of your Gameboy, NES, and SNES. whistle
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swirlsaepi wrote:
Your problem was you never owned a Sega Genesis. You would have loved it and would have gotten rid of your Gameboy, NES, and SNES. whistle

Evidence for my theory that all topics about unreleased games end up massively off topic because there is only so much that can be said about minimal information.
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J Emmett
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Games with needlessly oversized boxes should include a more appropriately-sized box inside. Fold, glue, and recycle the retail box. Asmodee Megacorp, you listening?

I'm 100% serious too, as I unfondly remember the CD longbox and plastic holders.
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Kieran Quinn
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I would have probably bought this, but at that size? Forget it.

I love Citadels and I'm definitely intrigued by the 9 new characters, but I'm fed up with boxes being far bigger than they need to be. I'm definitely not re-buying a game that's like that.
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venrondua wrote:
mopeymatt wrote:
Solipsiste wrote:
I remember a while ago talking to Faidutti himself in Paris and he said that small boxes mean that a game is seen as a "minor", a "small" game by buyers, thus, they don't want to pay regular prices for them, while in boardgames, you pay mostly for designs, not material (with exceptions, of course).

I am pretty sure the large box is simply a reason to sell the game at a higher price. Which is sad. Not sad because I refuse to pay more, but sad because I have too many boxes taking too much space already.

Then again, I might be wrong.


As a designer, I would love it if this were true (paying for the design, not the components) but this is definitely not the case. I think the assumption game companies make about customers is maybe true for a casual player, but that core gamers would probably be open to paying for quality/depth of experience. I myself have a huge leaning to the heft of the box, which always seems higher when the stuff barely fits inside. One of the reasons citadels is still in my collection is that it's a lot of game crammed into a tiny space.


This is definitely a decision made with the casual customer in mind. I think they feel they already have the hobby gamer's money so the idea is to increase sales by going after the casual market.

However I wonder how long it will be before the desire for the casual market will actually reduce the sales by hobby gamers? As in you gain one but lose the other.

The reason I wonder this is because I will not be buying this game. I had heard Citadels is a good game and it sounds like the second edition is making some positive changes, so gameplay wise is the one to get. However I only have so much money and space so I have to weigh various factors against my available budget when making my purchasing decision. This one isn't making the cut with it's current box size.

I am reaching a tipping point where I am legitimately getting pissed at oversized boxes. I never used to consider the size of the box however as I collected more, my storage space shrunk. Soon I found myself running out of places to put my games and I had to sell some off to make run for others. This is coming from someone who is a bit of a collector. I still own my NES and all the games I had for it. I've never sold off a single video game in all my years of playing (SNES, Gameboy, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4). So selling off a board game is actually a big deal (for me). If I had the space I would keep everything I bought.

I think the reason I get so annoyed is because it feels needless to me. Especially in situations where it's a reprint or second edition and the previous version was in a reasonable sized box. I get irked knowing I'm using up space I didn't have to, due to a marketing decision for a demographic I'm not part of. I'm not saying it's a totally valid annoyance, but it exists none the less and absolutely is informing my purchasing decisions going forward.



I love your post because I think I'm the same type of collector. My board game and book shelves are full of my favorite titles. When I love something I want to own it, even if I mostly just get to look at it on the shelf it gives me satisfaction.

Personally I am happy with my old copy of Citadels. It lives at my friends house where my game group meets because I got sick of transporting it back and forth so much. I'd only buy the new one if they added significant game content.

On a side-note, how many people (beyond myself) have lost multiple turns not to the Assassin, but rather because you forgot to respond, "Yes, your Excellency"?
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snewman1 wrote:
On a side-note, how many people (beyond myself) have lost multiple turns not to the Assassin, but rather because you forgot to respond, "Yes, your Excellency"?

Not me. That's a stupid card so I never use it. You'd lose your turn anyway it you said "yes" it's "thanks" (which is no way to speak to a king). I probably would lose multiple turns if that ballroom was ever in play.
 
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snewman1 wrote:
On a side-note, how many people (beyond myself) have lost multiple turns not to the Assassin, but rather because you forgot to respond, "Yes, your Excellency"?


Wait... what rule is that? I've not been playing with it.
 
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vip_chicken wrote:
snewman1 wrote:
On a side-note, how many people (beyond myself) have lost multiple turns not to the Assassin, but rather because you forgot to respond, "Yes, your Excellency"?


Wait... what rule is that? I've not been playing with it.

It's on the Ball Room district card, from the Dark City expansion.
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