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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Newb taking on 2nd Scenario..with Killer deck. rss

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Walt B
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So as many are painfully aware I'm new here but thanks to all the amazing help have a solid grasp of mechanics..I hope.

Anyway so I built The Killer deck made generously by xanalor.
I won passage thru Mirkwood albeit with thanks to Gandalf showing up thematically at the last possible moment.

I think I'll try Journey Down the Alduin later today and wondered if there where fundamental tips for this scenario and deck a newb might find useful.
I'm going over the card synergies as best I can.. sneak attack Gandalf Ect..

Thanks!!
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Robin Munn

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Hmmm. I think I don't want to give you specific tips on playing Journey Down the Anduin until you've gotten to experience it for yourself, spoiler-free, for the first time.

I'll just say that if you find yourself struggling to get off the ground at the start of the quest, try coming back with a different set of heroes. Some hero combinations will have extreme trouble with the first few rounds, while others will give you a bit more "breathing room" in which to prepare for what's coming.

Apart from that, let us know how your first game went! And then we'll gladly share tips on how to deal with the problem(s) you had trouble with.
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Doc H

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I will second Robin's comment. I started out on the first quest two summers ago and tried the four different monosphere decks three times each. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty (unless you are pro-spider). I read enough here and at Beorn's to realize that monosphere decks are harder, not easier!

Since then I've logged 130+ group plays and estimate over 300 solo plays. Much of my enjoyment of the game comes from failing a quest, thinking about what went wrong and what my needs are, adjusting my decks, and returning. I like staying away from other people's solutions until I've cracked the code with at least one deck.

I hope you keep loving the game!
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Jim . K
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Without spoiling anything for you ... you may want to gather a few more Allies than usual ...
 
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Walt B
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totally get it..Ok I'll be setting up and giving it a go..(for better or worse.) In a few hours!
You can bet the bloody after report will follow thereafter! Lol
 
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Walt B
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That was....Epic !

Wow my head is swimming with everything that transpired.

Pretty confident rules were adhered to pretty well. With a few penalties retroactively taking affect.
The Goblin Sniper got me as I didn't notice his staging area effect but I'm confident it wouldn't have changed game end.

Interesting points:
Drew a random Hill Troll before seeing it was also required for game setup.
Ironically got him again last card for the game end as well...(Whyyyy him!?)
Fortunately I had Forest Snare handy.

Cool making stand and fight + Elwyn to get Beorn. Took a while.
Also cool to play Dwarven Tomb to get stand and fight..to get Gandalf. (Hopefully that was legal) again that was at the game end. I did that academically to wipe out the troll more quickly.

Was it legal to play Gandalfs response for for four damage then again for his four attack?
I googled so much this game so I did it right. But that I'm not 100%

Also I didn't get a wolf rider shadow effect but I'm curious how it's resolved? My Google efforts were inconclusive.

That was great fun.. tiring but fun! Lol
 
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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Floridawalt wrote:
Also cool to play Dwarven Tomb to get stand and fight..to get Gandalf. (Hopefully that was legal) again that was at the game end. I did that academically to wipe out the troll more quickly.

Was it legal to play Gandalfs response for for four damage then again for his four attack?


Playing Dwarven Tomb to get Stand and Fight back is legal.
Resolving Gandalf's damage response and then attacking is also legal (if it's the combat phase and you're done with enemy attacks, of course; otherwise you do get the damage response immediately but have to wait until it's your turn to resolve attacks).
Playing Stand and Fight to bring back Gandalf is, sadly, not legal - Gandalf is neutral and as such doesn't belong to any sphere of influence. However, this is not a good ruling (because Stand and Fight says can belong to any sphere of influence, not must belong to any sphere of influence and that part gives the impression of reminder text, not actual rules) and I've often considered houseruling it away. I've never gotten around to doing it, though, because Stand and Fight doesn't seem to find its way into my decks lately.
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Walt B
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
Floridawalt wrote:
Also cool to play Dwarven Tomb to get stand and fight..to get Gandalf. (Hopefully that was legal) again that was at the game end. I did that academically to wipe out the troll more quickly.

Was it legal to play Gandalfs response for for four damage then again for his four attack?


Playing Dwarven Tomb to get Stand and Fight back is legal.
Resolving Gandalf's damage response and then attacking is also legal (if it's the combat phase and you're done with enemy attacks, of course; otherwise you do get the damage response immediately but have to wait until it's your turn to resolve attacks).
Playing Stand and Fight to bring back Gandalf is, sadly, not legal - Gandalf is neutral and as such doesn't belong to any sphere of influence. However, this is not a good ruling (because Stand and Fight says can belong to any sphere of influence, not must belong to any sphere of influence and that part gives the impression of reminder text, not actual rules) and I've often considered houseruling it away. I've never gotten around to doing it, though, because Stand and Fight doesn't seem to find its way into my decks lately.


As yes I recall reading that now.
Ah well fortunately
In this case it didn't affect anything besides the Troll dieing more quickly..lol.
Don't believe there was a way for him to escape the trap at that point.
 
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Walt B
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Instead of a new thread I'll simply ask here...
So now completing 2 of the three core scenarios I have interest in moving on. But it seems that Escape from Dol Guldur is considered verrry difficult/frustrating.
I wondered if I should give it a go or forgo it and consider moving to another purchase?
And if so what would you consider a next purchase having just the core set?

Thanks!
 
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Robin Munn

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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
Playing Stand and Fight to bring back Gandalf is, sadly, not legal - Gandalf is neutral and as such doesn't belong to any sphere of influence. However, this is not a good ruling (because Stand and Fight says can belong to any sphere of influence, not must belong to any sphere of influence and that part gives the impression of reminder text, not actual rules) and I've often considered houseruling it away. I've never gotten around to doing it, though, because Stand and Fight doesn't seem to find its way into my decks lately.


I 100% agree with what Kārlis Jēriņš said here. The official ruling is that the parenthetical "(The chosen ally can belong to any sphere of influence)" means that Gandalf is excluded, because he is a Neutral ally and Neutral cards, by definition, do not belong to any sphere of influence. But this is one of the VERY few rulings that I think Nate and/or Caleb got wrong, and I houserule that Stand and Fight may be used with Neutral allies. Besides the "can" vs. "must" thing that Kārlis pointed out, there's also the fact that it's in parentheses. Things in parentheses are meant to be clarifications, not restrictions.

There's one other ruling that I houserule differently from the game designers. You won't encounter this situation until you start buying expansions, because it involves one card from the Hobbit expansions and another card from the Shadow and Flame expansion (part of the Khazad-Dûm cycle). But I'll mention it now and link to the cards in question so that you can look at them.

There has been an official ruling that when you use Hands Upon the Bow to attack an enemy in the staging area, that does not count as a Ranged attack, because the definition of Ranged means "attacking an enemy engaged with another player". (This matters for cards like Bard the Bowman, who lowers enemies' defenses when he makes a Ranged attack.) They are correct that this is how the rules were written, but I find that COMPLETELY counter-intuitive. I mean, the Hands Upon the Bow card even requires a Ranged character in order to work!

My house rule is that I modify the definition of Ranged a little: an attack is a Ranged attack if two things are true. 1) The character performing the attack has the Ranged keyword, and 2) The enemy is not engaged with the player who controls that character. (Note that the Ranged keyword still does not give you the ability to attack the staging area; it's just that if you have Ranged and something else lets you attack the staging area, that attack is considered a Ranged attack.) That way someone like Dúnhere, who has a special ability to attack the staging area but does not have the Ranged keyword, is not considered to be using a Ranged attack when he uses his ability. But if Bard the Bowman uses the Hands Upon the Bow card to attack an enemy in the staging area, it counts as a Ranged attack and his ability triggers.

This won't be relevant to you for a while yet, but if you look at the ruling, and the logic that it follows, you'll start to get a feel for how most card interactions in the game work. (Basic concept: read the cards as literally as possible.) In this ONE case, following the Rules As Written led to a completely counterintuitive result, so I figured out the smallest possible change to the rules that would lead to a more satisfying result. (Both from a rules-intuition standpoint and from a thematic standpoint: if Bard the Bowman is putting Hands Upon the Bow, then he's probably aiming for a weak spot.)

Hope this is interesting, if nothing else.
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Joke Meister
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
Playing Stand and Fight to bring back Gandalf is, sadly, not legal - Gandalf is neutral and as such doesn't belong to any sphere of influence. However, this is not a good ruling (because Stand and Fight says can belong to any sphere of influence, not must belong to any sphere of influence and that part gives the impression of reminder text, not actual rules) and I've often considered houseruling it away. I've never gotten around to doing it, though, because Stand and Fight doesn't seem to find its way into my decks lately.


I have always considered this ruling as nonsensical (even though its official). I never even realised this was a possible area of confusion until I read about it here on the forums and even then, I had trouble believing it until someone linked me to the official response. I really don't understand why FFG never treated this as an errata and updated the card instead of keeping the wording as is.
 
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Robin Munn

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Floridawalt wrote:
Instead of a new thread I'll simply ask here...
So now completing 2 of the three core scenarios I have interest in moving on. But it seems that Escape from Dol Guldur is considered verrry difficult/frustrating.
I wondered if I should give it a go or forgo it and consider moving to another purchase?
And if so what would you consider a next purchase having just the core set?

Thanks!


This is the point where we point you to the excellent article that someone wrote to answer just this question, because it's the question every new player has if they enjoyed the Core Set. Here you go:

https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/new-playe...

NOTE: Often you'll find that some of these expansions are out of print. Do NOT get suckered into paying double or triple list price for them at Amazon! Fantasy Flight keeps reprinting expansions that have sold out, so you won't have any trouble getting hold of the expansions you're missing at their normal price as long as you're patient. Normal prices are $15 for "regular" expansions, and $25 or $30 (I forget which) for "deluxe" or "saga" expansions. See the New Player Buying Guide for details.

P.S. For myself, I would probably recommend buying the Khazad-Dûm deluxe expansion first, then some of the regular expansions from its cycle (like The Watcher in the Water, Shadow and Flame, and Foundations of Stone). If you buy these expansions, you'll get a lot of Dwarf cards, which will lead you to want to build a deck around Dwarves. If so, you'll definitely want to buy the Return to Mirkwood expansion as well: it contains a Dwarf hero who makes Dwarf decks a LOT more powerful if you have him. And finally, the two Hobbit expansions (first one is Over Hill and Under Hill, and second one is On The Doorstep) contain a lot more Dwarves (the rest of the named Dwarves from the Hobbit books, in fact) to flesh out a proper Dwarf deck or two.

So my personal recommendation if you can get these expansions is:

1) Khazad-Dûm
2) Return to Mirkwood
3) Foundations of Stone
4) The Watcher in the Water
5) The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill
6) The Hobbit: On the Doorstep
7) (all the rest of the Khazad-Dûm cycle of regular expansions)
8) (all the rest of the Mirkwood cycle of regular expansions)

However, the other alternative is to buy the expansions in the order they were released. In that case, buy them in the same order that the New Player Buying Guide lists them.

Finally, DON'T be afraid to skip one or more of the above expansions if it's currently out of print. It WILL come back into print within less than a year, usually within six months. Don't get sucked into paying the sometimes RIDICULOUS prices that I've seen on Amazon for temporarily-out-of-print expansions. You can buy the expansions in just about any order and have fun with them, as long as you buy the deluxe expansion for each cycle before you buy the "regular" expansions in that cycle.

Have fun!
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Walt B
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rmunn wrote:
Floridawalt wrote:
Instead of a new thread I'll simply ask here...
So now completing 2 of the three core scenarios I have interest in moving on. But it seems that Escape from Dol Guldur is considered verrry difficult/frustrating.
I wondered if I should give it a go or forgo it and consider moving to another purchase?
And if so what would you consider a next purchase having just the core set?

Thanks!


This is the point where we point you to the excellent article that someone wrote to answer just this question, because it's the question every new player has if they enjoyed the Core Set. Here you go:

https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/new-playe...

NOTE: Often you'll find that some of these expansions are out of print. Do NOT get suckered into paying double or triple list price for them at Amazon! Fantasy Flight keeps reprinting expansions that have sold out, so you won't have any trouble getting hold of the expansions you're missing at their normal price as long as you're patient. Normal prices are $15 for "regular" expansions, and $25 or $30 (I forget which) for "deluxe" or "saga" expansions. See the New Player Buying Guide for details.


Broken record of thanks here but yes Thank you all!

Oh yes I'm perusing the expansions and boy coming late to the party is cool in that I have so much to choose..but soo much can be a bit much lol.

But as a rookie would you do Escape from Dol Guldur or skip it? I've been doing so well I'm leery of hitting a frustrating impasse.
Whatever you all say is what I'll do...
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Robin Munn

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Floridawalt wrote:

Broken record of thanks here but yes Thank you all!

Oh yes I'm perusing the expansions and boy coming late to the party is cool in that I have so much to choose..but soo much can be a bit much lol.

But as a rookie would you do Escape from Dol Guldur or skip it? I've been doing so well I'm leery of hitting a frustrating impasse.
Whatever you all say is what I'll do...


P.S. I just updated my answer above with a personal recommendation. And I'd say skip Escape from Dol Guldur until you have at least 3-4 more expansions under your belt. Unless you enjoy running into brick walls head-on, that is.
 
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Dr Johnson
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Floridawalt wrote:
But as a rookie would you do Escape from Dol Guldur or skip it? I've been doing so well I'm leery of hitting a frustrating impasse. Whatever you all say is what I'll do...


Glad you enjoyed JDTA - it's a classic scenario that many people come back to. With regard to Escape from Dol Guldur, I'd also suggest that you skip it, and come back to it later.

Get the first couple of cycles first if you can, and only then purchase the Sagas (Hobbit, LoTR).
 
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Walt B
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rmunn wrote:
Floridawalt wrote:
Instead of a new thread I'll simply ask here...
So now completing 2 of the three core scenarios I have interest in moving on. But it seems that Escape from Dol Guldur is considered verrry difficult/frustrating.
I wondered if I should give it a go or forgo it and consider moving to another purchase?
And if so what would you consider a next purchase having just the core set?

Thanks!


This is the point where we point you to the excellent article that someone wrote to answer just this question, because it's the question every new player has if they enjoyed the Core Set. Here you go:

https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/new-playe...

NOTE: Often you'll find that some of these expansions are out of print. Do NOT get suckered into paying double or triple list price for them at Amazon! Fantasy Flight keeps reprinting expansions that have sold out, so you won't have any trouble getting hold of the expansions you're missing at their normal price as long as you're patient. Normal prices are $15 for "regular" expansions, and $25 or $30 (I forget which) for "deluxe" or "saga" expansions. See the New Player Buying Guide for details.

P.S. For myself, I would probably recommend buying the Khazad-Dûm deluxe expansion first, then some of the regular expansions from its cycle (like The Watcher in the Water, Shadow and Flame, and Foundations of Stone). If you buy these expansions, you'll get a lot of Dwarf cards, which will lead you to want to build a deck around Dwarves. If so, you'll definitely want to buy the Return to Mirkwood expansion as well: it contains a Dwarf hero who makes Dwarf decks a LOT more powerful if you have him. And finally, the two Hobbit expansions (first one is Over Hill and Under Hill, and second one is On The Doorstep) contain a lot more Dwarves (the rest of the named Dwarves from the Hobbit books, in fact) to flesh out a proper Dwarf deck or two.

So my personal recommendation if you can get these expansions is:

1) Khazad-Dûm
2) Return to Mirkwood
3) Foundations of Stone
4) The Watcher in the Water
5) The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill
6) The Hobbit: On the Doorstep
7) (all the rest of the Khazad-Dûm cycle of regular expansions)
8) (all the rest of the Mirkwood cycle of regular expansions)

However, the other alternative is to buy the expansions in the order they were released. In that case, buy them in the same order that the New Player Buying Guide lists them.

Finally, DON'T be afraid to skip one or more of the above expansions if it's currently out of print. It WILL come back into print within less than a year, usually within six months. Don't get sucked into paying the sometimes RIDICULOUS prices that I've seen on Amazon for temporarily-out-of-print expansions. You can buy the expansions in just about any order and have fun with them, as long as you buy the deluxe expansion for each cycle before you buy the "regular" expansions in that cycle.

Have fun!



Looks like coolstuffinc locally has
3) Foundations of Stone
4) The Watcher in the Water
5) The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill
6) The Hobbit: On the Doorstep

I didn't check 7 or 8 assuming I'd need previous things first.. So likely foundations first ?
Or search else where for your number 1. .?

Edit: I see miniaturemarket has mirkwood.
 
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Robin Munn

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Floridawalt wrote:

Looks like coolstuffinc locally has
3) Foundations of Stone
4) The Watcher in the Water
5) The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill
6) The Hobbit: On the Doorstep

I didn't check 7 or 8 assuming I'd need previous things first.. So likely foundations first ?
Or search else where for your number 1. .?

Edit: I see miniaturemarket has mirkwood.


The Mirkwood cycle was the first six expansions ever released; its quests are playable with just the core set. Buying the Mirkwood cycle first is a good choice, since you'll get the same experience as people who bought it when it first came out -- buying every expansion in release order. The Mirkwood cycle, IMHO, has some of the weakest quests in the game (Hills of Emyn Muil, for example, which can be a bit boring to play as there's not quite enough challenge). But it does have some staple cards that can fit into many, many decks, so you'll want to buy it eventually. If it's in print right now, then that's probably a good choice for your first set of expansions.

And write yourself a reminder to check every couple of weeks whether Khazad-Dûm is available again.
 
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Walt B
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rmunn wrote:
Floridawalt wrote:

Looks like coolstuffinc locally has
3) Foundations of Stone
4) The Watcher in the Water
5) The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill
6) The Hobbit: On the Doorstep

I didn't check 7 or 8 assuming I'd need previous things first.. So likely foundations first ?
Or search else where for your number 1. .?

Edit: I see miniaturemarket has mirkwood.


The Mirkwood cycle was the first six expansions ever released; its quests are playable with just the core set. Buying the Mirkwood cycle first is a good choice, since you'll get the same experience as people who bought it when it first came out -- buying every expansion in release order. The Mirkwood cycle, IMHO, has some of the weakest quests in the game (Hills of Emyn Muil, for example, which can be a bit boring to play as there's not quite enough challenge). But it does have some staple cards that can fit into many, many decks, so you'll want to buy it eventually. If it's in print right now, then that's probably a good choice for your first set of expansions.

And write yourself a reminder to check every couple of weeks whether Khazad-Dûm is available again.


You can bet will! I can't believe that the one copy of Khazad that was nicely mentioned over at miniature market apparently was the last one on the planet for the time being..lol

In the meantime I've been considering the Hobbit as I loved the books as a kid.

The Hobbit is
 
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