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Subject: Rank 30? rss

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Nicholas Dewald
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Anyone else surprised by this? I have played a few times and in my mind the game is average. I guess I'm just surprised by the number of people thinking this game is a 10. Nothing really innovative here.
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Jack Francisco
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I didn't back this because, despite making thematic and BEAUTIFUL games, Jamey's designs don't resonate with me. The many posts that I've seen comparing this to Terra Mystica isn't exactly exciting me to even play it, to be honest.
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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PapaDeWald wrote:
Anyone else surprised by this? I have played a few times and in my mind the game is average. I guess I'm just surprised by the number of people thinking this game is a 10. Nothing really innovative here.


Innovation is Highly Overrated in Game Design
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ArtSchool
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I would give you my opinion if I weren't THE LAST IDIOT who ordered Scythe long ago and is still waiting for his copy to arrive, after several delays. I am not happy AT ALL...

 
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Ken B.
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Hybrids are the way of the future--they pull from all crowds. It's why you'll find Pandemic Legacy sitting up top, a pair of Through the Ages in the top 10, Terra Mystica at #4...

It's just an off-handed prediction, but I'm not sure we'll ever see a pure Euro (or "pure" anything, really) sitting atop the BGG ranks.

Kudos to Jamey for recognizing this trend and bringing out a rock solid hybrid of his own. Resource gathering, player powers, workers, mechs, combat, story encounter cards...there's something in here for most gamers to like. That takes a different kind of brilliance to bring all that together.

I'm at an "8" but I want to play it some more. Hopefully I've have my copy next week.
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Paul Newsham
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I can see a fair few uninspiring games above it too. Just the nature of personal taste vs. mass voting
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James Mathias
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senorcoo wrote:
I didn't back this because, despite making thematic and BEAUTIFUL games, Jamey's designs don't resonate with me. The many posts that I've seen comparing this to Terra Mystica isn't exactly exciting me to even play it, to be honest.


It is nothing like Terra Mystica. It has a "revealed bonus from building" mechanism like Terra Mystica, or Compounded, or Hansa Teutonica, or a myriad of other games. But aside from that it doesn't feel anything like Terra Mystica.
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franklincobb wrote:
Hybrids are the way of the future--they pull from all crowds. It's why you'll find Pandemic Legacy sitting up top, a pair of Through the Ages in the top 10, Terra Mystica at #4...

It's just an off-handed prediction, but I'm not sure we'll ever see a pure Euro (or "pure" anything, really) sitting atop the BGG ranks.


You think Terra Mystica is a hybrid ? It is a pure euro imo
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Mike George
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Well Nicholas what would you rate the game 1 thur 10. Overall could you name a new game that has everything packed in a game like "Scythe"?
 
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James Mathias
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S0laris wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Hybrids are the way of the future--they pull from all crowds. It's why you'll find Pandemic Legacy sitting up top, a pair of Through the Ages in the top 10, Terra Mystica at #4...

It's just an off-handed prediction, but I'm not sure we'll ever see a pure Euro (or "pure" anything, really) sitting atop the BGG ranks.


You think Terra Mystica is a hybrid ? It is a pure euro imo


It is a pure "Euro".
 
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Robin Zigmond
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jmathias wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
I didn't back this because, despite making thematic and BEAUTIFUL games, Jamey's designs don't resonate with me. The many posts that I've seen comparing this to Terra Mystica isn't exactly exciting me to even play it, to be honest.


It is nothing like Terra Mystica. It has a "revealed bonus from building" mechanism like Terra Mystica, or Compounded, or Hansa Teutonica, or a myriad of other games. But aside from that it doesn't feel anything like Terra Mystica.


I've only managed to play Scythe once so far (2p, when I'm sure it plays best with 3+), whereas TM is my favourite game which I've played well over 250 times (including online plays) - but I could see plenty in common. Granted they're totally different games in many ways, but there are two further similarities which struck me. One is the asymmetry of having different factions (and in Scythe different player boards as well) - sure, lots of other games do this too, but TM was as far as I know the first "pure Euro" to do this. (Scythe isn't quite a "pure Euro", whatever that means, but it's quite close to it.)

Even more importantly to me, there is the sheer importance of having a shared world map which the players interact on, and which provides most of the tension/conflict in the game. You might think that this is something which "almost every" game has - but among Euros actually it is really rare, or at least is was before TM. Look at almost any Euro in the BGG top 20 or 30 - both classics like Puerto Rico and Agricola as well as more recent games like Tzolkin and Keyflower - and you will see very few which have meaningful interaction on anything you could call a "map". Even in games like Power Grid and Brass, which do have a map, the interaction on that is relatively minimal, and the real interaction and conflict happens elsewhere (eg in Power Grid it is the auctioning of power plants and control of raw material prices).

So while Scythe and TM are in many ways totally different games, I am not surprised when Jamey says that TM was one of the games which inspired Scythe.
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Greg
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A lot of people backed it and a lot of people like it. A lot of people who didn't back it have been taught the game to be able to form an opinion as well.

Also, despite all the pieces, boards, cards and such, it's a pretty accessible game and easy to teach and learn. Then there is the look of it that can be more inviting to onlookers who may want to give it a try.

It's only a subjective list anyway. A lot of people seem to be bothered that Pandemic Legacy shot to the top, but others don't think Twilight Struggle was worth being up there in the first place.

I won't be surprised if Seafall rises quickly.
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Nicholas Dewald
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Mike George wrote:
Well Nicholas what would you rate the game 1 thur 10. Overall could you name a new game that has everything packed in a game like "Scythe"?


I rated the game a 6. OK.

It's not a bad game, I'm just surprised how highly it is rated on BGG. I admit it does package a lot of different concepts, it just wasnt a game that blew me away.
 
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Thanee
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PapaDeWald wrote:
Anyone else surprised by this? I have played a few times and in my mind the game is average. I guess I'm just surprised by the number of people thinking this game is a 10. Nothing really innovative here.


I don't know what innovation could possibly have to do with rank. Nothing?

Anyways...

Right now, most people who rate this are people who backed this on Kickstarter, many of which are fans of Jamey's games in general.

So, it seems quite logical, that the rating is a bit on the higher end.

It also says, though, that people got what they expected and were not disappointed (in general, exceptions will likely exist).

Give it half a year or so and then look at the ranks again. It might be a bit more objective by then.

From my own point of view. This is the first SMG game I own and have played. I only played once, so far, so I cannot really say how fun it will be long-term, but it was quite a lot of fun and I am looking forward to playing Scythe again! Obviously, not everyone will enjoy it, though. Not every game is for everyone. Even if it is on the #1 BGG rank, it will not be for everyone.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. But, obviously, many others do.

Bye
Thanee
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Kevin Garnica
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Quality, not innovation. I'm pretty sure that people who rate the game high know perfectly well that it smells like Terra Mystica, Kemet, etc. But it's got quality components (let's face it, the game is gorgeous), quality game play (it is a solid design). Heck, I rate Isle of Skye high, but tile-laying, auctions, and modular scoring are nothing new.

Besides, at the end of the day, it's kind of a mob mentality anyway, and I fully recognize this. People don't like something, it will reflect. Movies bomb and box office sales drop; Car sales go down; TV shows get cancelled; and board games die an obscure death if no one likes them over time.

Personally, I like the game plain and simple, and my rating is a personal one, I don't really adhere to the BGG metric (that's another thing to consider, too).

My guess, it will hover around the top 10 before the end of the year. How long it may stay there is anyone's guess.
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Trevor Schadt
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I find the cries of "this game can't be rated high because it's not a new mechanic" hilarious, if for no other reason than that the current #1 game is a reboot of another game combined with an existing mechanic.
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Bob D
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Anyone else surprised by [insert game here]? I have played a few times and in my mind the game is average. I guess I'm just surprised by the number of people thinking this game is a 10. Nothing really innovative here.

Everybody has their likes and dislikes. And even with these disagreements, somehow life goes on. It's a beautiful thing.
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Frank Hamrick
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PapaDeWald wrote:
Anyone else surprised by this? I have played a few times and in my mind the game is average. I guess I'm just surprised by the number of people thinking this game is a 10. Nothing really innovative here.


I don't pay much attention to 'innovation.' I much prefer 'fun,' 'challenging,' 'tension,' 'easy to grasp & play, but meaty in decision-making,' in a game. If a game has those attributes, innovation is meaningless to me. But, you may not think the way I think.

So, no, I'm not surprised. Though I haven't yet rated it (only played it 4 times), at this point it is still sailing in the 9-10 spot for me, but I generally give a game 5-10 plays before deciding how to rate it. By then it might be an 8 or a solid 9/10, but it definitely will not be 'average.'
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Philip Mazzone
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Its all relative to the people playing. Im sure there are games you love and would make your top 10 that other people hate and would never play. You'd think they were nuts ! And vice versa.... People telling you a particular game is awesome, and you didnt like it at all.

The game itslef has alot going for it, no one can deny it that. Really beautiful artwork on the board and on cards. Great setting and theme, good components, etc. It comes down to wetaher or not all of that appeals to you or not.

For me personally, as its now in the #30 spot, I can tell you I like it way more than several games ranked higher than it.
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Ken B.
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S0laris wrote:
franklincobb wrote:
Hybrids are the way of the future--they pull from all crowds. It's why you'll find Pandemic Legacy sitting up top, a pair of Through the Ages in the top 10, Terra Mystica at #4...

It's just an off-handed prediction, but I'm not sure we'll ever see a pure Euro (or "pure" anything, really) sitting atop the BGG ranks.


You think Terra Mystica is a hybrid ? It is a pure euro imo



The theme is fantasy, the races have abilities that are tied to their identity (again, in some cases, if you squint hard enough). Yes, it is more Euro than anything, but they gave it the theme they did for a reason. Also, unlike a lot of Euros, it's not quite as immediately easy to divorce the gameplay itself from its theme and just plaster on another one. The only odd thing is that the races don't go to war.

(I guess I should say that I own Terra Mystica and its expansion, so that it doesn't look like I'm giving a drive-by opinion.)
 
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A J
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No, not really surprised it's at 30. As others have said, it doesn't have to be innovative to be good.

Anyways, the gameplay is pretty decent. Turns go by quickly, and there is variable set-up and player powers. All great things. There are certainly multiple paths to victory. Combat is important but not necessary, nor debilitating. The theme is pretty heavy.

All that might not get a game to top 30, but add on to that the amazing artwork and production quality of everything, and it's just an awesome game to both play and handle.
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ozzy perez
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I haven't played it but I definitely want to try it at some point
I don't think the game will be particularly exciting with two hence my not so excited state.
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Roger Reisinger
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Also I think a lot of people dont rate exactly according to the bgg guidlines. Im sure Scythe gets at least another point for customer service and how well Jamie organizes KS campaigns.

I personally feel that Scythe is a good game, I'd rate it 7 on gameplay. My only complaint is that is does feel like a euro and that combat was kinda tacked on. I enjoy combat games, but others dont so it is a fine balancing act. I also realize that this is SMG's first attempt at a hybrid game and I think it was successful and a good start.

I hope Jamie continues dabbling in hybrid games, I'd love to see his version of a 4x with equal parts euro, civ building/ tech tree, combat. A lot of 4x's on the market have a lot of luck and dice rolling involved. I'd like to see a 4x driven by pure strategy, and I think Jamie is the perfect person to design it.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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From a design perspective, I can assure you that combat wasn't tacked on! Combat has been a core part of Scythe from the very beginning, and it went through 20+ iterations during the design process.
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Roger Reisinger
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jameystegmaier wrote:
From a design perspective, I can assure you that combat wasn't tacked on! Combat has been a core part of Scythe from the very beginning, and it went through 20+ iterations during the design process.


Im sorry, ' tacked on ' is poor word usage. I didnt mean to imply it wasnt thoroughly designed. I think what I meant was combat feels disjointed from the rest of the game. As Im playing and building my engine, I'm never really scared of someone attacking me. Combat in this game is very forgiving to the loser. I think if units were destroyed instead of returned to base it would be more my style.

Thanks for Scythe and I look forward to your next design
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