$20.00
$60.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Arctic Scavengers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Medic & Sniper timing in Skirmish - can't find satisfactory answer rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
luke smith
New Zealand
Dunedin
Otago
flag msg tools
So in the skirmish, the rules say I reveal all cards I held back for the skirmish.

If I have a medic, or sniper, do I reveal them as well? Or do I keep them in hand?

If they are in hand, and I play a medic, does the medic then contribute to the skirmish (for tie breakers), or no?

If I play it out in front, well, it's basically a meat shield, since a sniper will target the medic.

Do snipers play from hand count towards tie breakers?

Or do I just play everything kept back face up (simultaneously with others) and say "I'm sniping your brawler", and then the other player says "I'm blocking with medic" (which would make me an idiot since my sniper was ineffective, since the medic would still stay in that situation).

It's quite confusing.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Robinson
England
Rotherham
South Yorkshire
flag msg tools
I fight lost wars, see light, fear sight
badge
I open my mind, need flesh, fear mine
mbmbmbmbmb
lukasaurus wrote:
If I play it out in front, well, it's basically a meat shield, since a sniper will target the medic.


Not if another player with a sniper is on turn first - before that sniper intends to take out the medic.

It's all resolved in turn order once the cards are all revealed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
luke smith
New Zealand
Dunedin
Otago
flag msg tools
But that doesn't help? That's just more confusing. Do I keep the medic in hand, or play it in front, or do I have a choice? The rulebook is so ambiguous. The base rules say play all cards into the skirmish, but there is no medic in the base game.

The expansion says play medic from hand, but there is no rule addendum saying you can hold cards in hand during the skirmish.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zen
Japan
Kyoto
flag msg tools
youtube.com/neatozen
badge
follow me on twitter: @zenxacred
mbmbmbmbmb
Play all the cards you held back for the skirmish face up.

If you use the card for its effect (sniper/medic/saboteur), it stops being part of the skirmish and will not contribute neither their combat value or personage. Remember that ties are broken in a skirmish by counting the number of people/personage (bottom left of the cards) in that skirmish.

No point in holding the cards unshown. This isn't magic where you bust out counterspells.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
Luke, it's worth checking out the FAQ int he fiels section. The rules are vague in a number of places, but the FAQ helps a lot.

lukasaurus wrote:
So in the skirmish, the rules say I reveal all cards I held back for the skirmish.

If I have a medic, or sniper, do I reveal them as well? Or do I keep them in hand?

You reveal all the cards you held back, so yes, you reveal medics, snipers and saboteurs.

What is a bit confusing is that cards held back for the skirmish still count as being "in your hand" until the end of the round, and so they can still be used for their special abilities (either in someone else's turn or during the skirmish).

Quote:
If they are in hand, and I play a medic, does the medic then contribute to the skirmish (for tie breakers), or no?

Yes. The FAQ makes it clear that if one of these cards is used for its special ability, its fight value doesn't count for the skirmish (I think the only one with a fight value is sniper, but I may be misremembering), but it does still count as a tribe member for tie breakers.

Quote:
If I play it out in front, well, it's basically a meat shield, since a sniper will target the medic.

True, but you'd rather they sniped your medic than another card, right? (Remember that sniped characters just go to your discard pile; you don't lose them permanently.)

Quote:
Do snipers play from hand count towards tie breakers?

Yes, see my answer regarding medics.

Quote:
Or do I just play everything kept back face up (simultaneously with others) and say "I'm sniping your brawler", and then the other player says "I'm blocking with medic" (which would make me an idiot since my sniper was ineffective, since the medic would still stay in that situation).

Basically, yes. All the cards are revealed simultaneously, and then in turn order, the players choose to use any snipers or saboteurs. A medic is used as a reaction to a sniper, so doesn't need to be used in your turn (and can even save another player's character).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
zenxacred wrote:
Play all the cards you held back for the skirmish face up.

If you use the card for its effect (sniper/medic/saboteur), it stops being part of the skirmish and will not contribute neither their combat value or personage. Remember that ties are broken in a skirmish by counting the number of people/personage (bottom left of the cards) in that skirmish.

No point in holding the cards unshown. This isn't magic where you bust out counterspells.

The bit I've bolded is incorrect. The FAQ says their fight value doesn't count, but their tribe members do count for tiebreakers.

Other than that, I agree!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark J
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
xipuloxx wrote:


Quote:
Do snipers play from hand count towards tie breakers?

Yes, see my answer regarding medics.


I don't think so. The rules in the FAQ section makes a clear distinction between a fight value of 0 and no fight ability. The sniper brings NO fight value not 0 fight. It's only when you have a tied fight value, even if that value is 0, that the tribe members brought to the skirmish are counted.

i.e. two refugees do not beat out one refugee, they bring no fight at all, the contested item is lost to the junkyard.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
DiploGuy wrote:
xipuloxx wrote:


Quote:
Do snipers play from hand count towards tie breakers?

Yes, see my answer regarding medics.


I don't think so.

The FAQ explicitly says they do:
Quote:
When snipers/saboteurs are involved in a skirmish and used for their special effect, do their tribe
members still count toward the number of people for breaking ties?
Yes, they are not discarded immediately after being used, and still contribute tribe members for
the tiebreaker.



Quote:
The rules in the FAQ section makes a clear distinction between a fight value of 0 and no fight ability. The sniper brings NO fight value not 0 fight. It's only when you have a tied fight value, even if that value is 0, that the tribe members brought to the skirmish are counted.

i.e. two refugees do not beat out one refugee, they bring no fight at all, the contested item is lost to the junkyard.

Where does it make this clear distinction? I don't see that anywhere.

It does, however, say that the skirmish is a tie "if no one brings any fight value and everyone ties for the number of people brought
to the skirmish". I would definitely say that "no fight value" includes cards without a fight score at all, unless there's a statement to the contrary.

And since it specifies a tie occurs if there is no fight value and there's a tie for number of people, that implies that the highest number of people breaks the tie as normal in this case.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark J
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
xipuloxx wrote:
DiploGuy wrote:
xipuloxx wrote:


Quote:
Do snipers play from hand count towards tie breakers?

Yes, see my answer regarding medics.


I don't think so.

The FAQ explicitly says they do:
Quote:
When snipers/saboteurs are involved in a skirmish and used for their special effect, do their tribe
members still count toward the number of people for breaking ties?
Yes, they are not discarded immediately after being used, and still contribute tribe members for
the tiebreaker.



Quote:
The rules in the FAQ section makes a clear distinction between a fight value of 0 and no fight ability. The sniper brings NO fight value not 0 fight. It's only when you have a tied fight value, even if that value is 0, that the tribe members brought to the skirmish are counted.

i.e. two refugees do not beat out one refugee, they bring no fight at all, the contested item is lost to the junkyard.

Where does it make this clear distinction? I don't see that anywhere.

It does, however, say that the skirmish is a tie "if no one brings any fight value and everyone ties for the number of people brought
to the skirmish". I would definitely say that "no fight value" includes cards without a fight score at all, unless there's a statement to the contrary.

And since it specifies a tie occurs if there is no fight value and there's a tie for number of people, that implies that the highest number of people breaks the tie as normal in this case.


"'Fight Value of O' from the FAQ in the rulebook:

What happens if one player brings a fight value of 0 and everyone else brings NO FIGHT* at all (Refugees, tools etc.)

A fight* value of 0 is superior to no ability to fight at all. The player with a fight of 0 would win in this case."

That's as clear a distinction as they could possibly make. Among the "etc." would include sniper as they have NO fight value, same as refugees, tools... etc.

What you quoted is IF there is a tiebreaker necessary due to there being a fight value, then all cards with tribe members counts towards the tiebreaker... snipers, refugees, etc.

*(emphasis in the rule book)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
DiploGuy wrote:
xipuloxx wrote:
Quote:
The rules in the FAQ section makes a clear distinction between a fight value of 0 and no fight ability. The sniper brings NO fight value not 0 fight. It's only when you have a tied fight value, even if that value is 0, that the tribe members brought to the skirmish are counted.

i.e. two refugees do not beat out one refugee, they bring no fight at all, the contested item is lost to the junkyard.

Where does it make this clear distinction? I don't see that anywhere.

It does, however, say that the skirmish is a tie "if no one brings any fight value and everyone ties for the number of people brought
to the skirmish". I would definitely say that "no fight value" includes cards without a fight score at all, unless there's a statement to the contrary.

And since it specifies a tie occurs if there is no fight value and there's a tie for number of people, that implies that the highest number of people breaks the tie as normal in this case.


"'Fight Value of O' from the FAQ in the rulebook:

What happens if one player brings a fight value of 0 and everyone else brings NO FIGHT* at all (Refugees, tools etc.)

A fight* value of 0 is superior to no ability to fight at all. The player with a fight of 0 would win in this case."

That's as clear a distinction as they could possibly make. Among the "etc." would include sniper as they have NO fight value, same as refugees, tools... etc.

What you quoted is IF there is a tiebreaker necessary due to there being a fight value, then all cards with tribe members counts towards the tiebreaker... snipers, refugees, etc.

*(emphasis in the rule book)

Ah, OK, somehow I missed that. And it's right before the bit I quoted as well!

But I still don't see anything that says two refugees don't beat one refugee...

It does say that a Fight value of 0 is superior to no fight value. But the next section, the bit I quoted previously, goes on to talk about what happens if no-one has brought any fight value. It does not say there's no skirmish in that case: it says that if no-one has any fight value and the number of people is equal, it's a tie (emphasis mine).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark J
United States
St. Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
xipuloxx wrote:
It does say that a Fight value of 0 is superior to no fight value. But the next section, the bit I quoted previously, goes on to talk about what happens if no-one has brought any fight value. It does not say there's no skirmish in that case: it says that if no-one has any fight value and the number of people is equal, it's a tie (emphasis mine).


No number for dig, you can't dig; no number for hunt, you can't hunt;... no number for fight, you can't skirmish. The rules stay consistent on that part. 10 refugees no more fight than 1.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
DiploGuy wrote:
xipuloxx wrote:
It does say that a Fight value of 0 is superior to no fight value. But the next section, the bit I quoted previously, goes on to talk about what happens if no-one has brought any fight value. It does not say there's no skirmish in that case: it says that if no-one has any fight value and the number of people is equal, it's a tie (emphasis mine).


No number for dig, you can't dig; no number for hunt, you can't hunt;... no number for fight, you can't skirmish. The rules stay consistent on that part. 10 refugees no more fight than 1.

Yes, 10 refugees have no more fight than 1, but they do have more numbers.

Look at the bit I quoted again: "if no one brings any fight value and everyone ties for the number of people brought to the skirmish". If what you're saying is correct, then the second part of that (from the "and" onward) is completely redundant.

I don't see any rule that says you can't, e.g., play a Refugee for a draw action. There's no point in doing so, because it adds nothing and can't even be modified by a tool or group leader, but there's no rule against it.

Anyway, the skirmish isn't an action you take in a round, it's a separate phase of the round, so the rules aren't actually the same. And you can certainly play Refugees in the skirmish, and there's no rule that says you can't win the skirmish by doing so.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.