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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Three rules questions rss

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Sean Houston
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Playing a 4-healer Hard Kindred Fire campaign, and came across a few issues my friend and I weren't 100% sure about:

1) Augur Grissom's feat - It says it affects all heroes in LOS, and from what I remember, heroes are always in LOS of themselves, and skills/abilities tend to say "each other hero/whatever" if they intend to exclude the activating hero. So does it affect Augur himself? We say yes.

2) Undying Skull - The (not ideal) wording on this item seems to refer to the innate surge opportunity that all heroes have for "1 surge > recover 1 fatigue," and only this. Would a Spiritspeaker be able to use her Vigor skill, since Vigor is just adding an available surge opportunity that just so happens to grant fatigue (to the whole party). Vague memories of years-ago Runemaster discussions re: the skill that has a side-effect of causing fatigue damage to the Runemaster come to mind. Long story short, we say yes, Spiritspeaker can still use Vigor with Undying Skull equipped.

3) Andira's hero ability - Does this have an enhanced effect on a monster/lieutenant using a multi-target skill? In the intro, we had the unique Elemental use his Fire ability on all four of our heroes. If they all took damage, would the Elemental take 1, or 4 damage from the aura? We erred on the side of 1 just to grant more difficulty, but this one we're actually somewhat stumped on.


-edit- to remove erroneous info
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Erik Burigo
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“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
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Hi Sean.

1) Yes, Augur Grissom benefits from his own Feat.

2) That's a good question. I don't know the official answer, but I agree with you that that item is intended to shut down only the default "[surge]: recover 1[fatigue]" option.

3) The ability does not have a limitation on the times per turn it triggers. In the case of the elemental using Fire to attack 4 adjacent heroes, it should have taken 4 damage.
 
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Paul
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Painkeeper wrote:
Hi Sean.

1) Yes, Augur Grissom benefits from his own Feat.

2) That's a good question. I don't know the official answer, but I agree with you that that item is intended to shut down only the default "[surge]: recover 1[fatigue]" option.

3) The ability does not have a limitation on the times per turn it triggers. In the case of the elemental using Fire to attack 4 adjacent heroes, it should have taken 4 damage.


I agree with your opinion for #2, as for the Runemaster skill "Iron Will", it only applies to that one surge.
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Sean Houston
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Painkeeper wrote:
Hi Sean.

1) Yes, Augur Grissom benefits from his own Feat.

2) That's a good question. I don't know the official answer, but I agree with you that that item is intended to shut down only the default "[surge]: recover 1[fatigue]" option.

3) The ability does not have a limitation on the times per turn it triggers. In the case of the elemental using Fire to attack 4 adjacent heroes, it should have taken 4 damage.


Thanks for the answers!

Re: #3, let me rebut with what was keeping me on the fence in the first place. These types of effects (aura stuff) tend to not stack. A hero adjacent to Shadow Dragons will not need to spend 2 surges to hit, a hero entering a space next to two monsters with Aura 1 will not take 2 damage, only 1 damage. Although I haven't seen an explicit rules response from FFG on it, I'd assume the new Dark Minotaur aura that causes diseased heroes to suffer damage when voluntarily spending fatigue would not stack (i.e. a hero would not take 2 damage for 1 fatigue spent, if within both minotaurs' auras).

If, for instance, the Demon Lord aura were not proximity/space based, but rather a "thorns" aura similar to Andira, then I'm not entirely certain if a hero attacking two Demon Lords simultaneously would suffer 2 hearts instead of just 1 for that one attack. Similarly, a hero in a Shadow aura doing a multi-target attack doesn't have to spend 1 surge for each of his targets.

Thoughts on the above? I may just send this one off to FFG, because I can see legitimate arguments for both sides, with no crystal clear reasoning to choose one over the other.
 
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Paul
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The difference between what you're describing and what actually occurs with Andira's hero ability is that there is no "stacking" occurring. There are 4 instances of her ability triggering.

The elemental makes 1 attack, targeting 4 heroes. The timing of everything goes like this:

Step 1: Declare targets (the elemental doesn't have a weapon to declare)
This is defined by the fire ability, "all adjacent figures"

Step 2: Roll Dice
The elemental rolls his attack pool, and each target rolls its defense pool

Step 3: Check range (pretty simple, everyone is in range)

Step 4: Spend surges
Each surge the Elemental spends adds to the attack as a whole (there probably won't be many of these, as he has no native surge abilities)

Step 5: Deal Damage
Each targeted (and/or affected) figure is dealt damage in sequence. Because it all happens "at the same time", the overlord (active player) chooses the order in which damage is dealt.

Let's name the heroes A, B, C, and D for simplicity. Andira is hero A.

The overlord chooses to damage C (and gets hurt by Andira) then D (and gets hurt by Andira) then B (and gets hurt by Andira) then Andira herself (and gets hurt by Andira). 4 damage total.

Now, if the elemental can pull it off, he can attack Andira first (and get hurt by her) but she is KO. Then he damages B,C, and D without consequence, because they are not within 3 spaces of Andira anymore (she's off the map).
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Sean Houston
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zaltyre wrote:
The difference between what you're describing and what actually occurs with Andira's hero ability is that there is no "stacking" occurring. There are 4 instances of her ability triggering.

The elemental makes 1 attack, targeting 4 heroes. The timing of everything goes like this:

Step 1: Declare targets (the elemental doesn't have a weapon to declare)
This is defined by the fire ability, "all adjacent figures"

Step 2: Roll Dice
The elemental rolls his attack pool, and each target rolls its defense pool

Step 3: Check range (pretty simple, everyone is in range)

Step 4: Spend surges
Each surge the Elemental spends adds to the attack as a whole (there probably won't be many of these, as he has no native surge abilities)

Step 5: Deal Damage
Each targeted (and/or affected) figure is dealt damage in sequence. Because it all happens "at the same time", the overlord (active player) chooses the order in which damage is dealt.

Let's name the heroes A, B, C, and D for simplicity. Andira is hero A.

The overlord chooses to damage C (and gets hurt by Andira) then D (and gets hurt by Andira) then B (and gets hurt by Andira) then Andira herself (and gets hurt by Andira). 4 damage total.

Now, if the elemental can pull it off, he can attack Andira first (and get hurt by her) but she is KO. Then he damages B,C, and D without consequence, because they are not within 3 spaces of Andira anymore (she's off the map).


Yup, this is pretty much the other side of the argument that I came up with that has me wondering. I lean toward this interpretation but I'm not 100% sold. I'll probably just email FFG and see what they think.
 
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Proto Persona
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SeanLuc wrote:
A hero adjacent to Shadow Dragons will not need to spend 2 surges to hit, a hero entering a space next to two monsters with Aura 1 will not take 2 damage, only 1 damage. Although I haven't seen an explicit rules response from FFG on it, I'd assume the new Dark Minotaur aura that causes diseased heroes to suffer damage when voluntarily spending fatigue would not stack (i.e. a hero would not take 2 damage for 1 fatigue spent, if within both minotaurs' auras).

If, for instance, the Demon Lord aura were not proximity/space based, but rather a "thorns" aura similar to Andira, then I'm not entirely certain if a hero attacking two Demon Lords simultaneously would suffer 2 hearts instead of just 1 for that one attack. Similarly, a hero in a Shadow aura doing a multi-target attack doesn't have to spend 1 surge for each of his targets.

Thoughts on the above? I may just send this one off to FFG, because I can see legitimate arguments for both sides, with no crystal clear reasoning to choose one over the other.


Actually Aura does stack, unless this answer has since been changed by another official response. Not 100% about the Dark Minotaurs, don't have them yet.
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Sean Houston
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Interesting, I wasn't aware of that ruling. I'd guess based on that, they'd rule Crow Hags' Lifethirst aura stacks as well, which makes them insanely nasty. Not sure about the Minotaurs, I'd have to re-read the exact wording and take into account the above ruling.
 
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Paul
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SeanLuc wrote:
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that ruling. I'd guess based on that, they'd rule Crow Hags' Lifethirst aura stacks as well, which makes them insanely nasty. Not sure about the Minotaurs, I'd have to re-read the exact wording and take into account the above ruling.


Aura stacks, Lifethirst (crow hags) stacks, soul shackle (shades) stacks. Dark minotaurs do not stack- the ability explicitly reads "...one or more monsters with..."
 
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Proto Persona
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The general intention seems to be if the ability has a rank (peirce, aura, etc.) then the ranks are additive. If the ability does not have a rank (shadow dragon's "shadow" ability for instance, cave spider's web) then it does not stack with itself. So just like reach and blast you either have it affecting you or you don't.
 
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Carsten Summer
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Quote:
2) That's a good question. I don't know the official answer, but I agree with you that that item is intended to shut down only the default "[surge]: recover 1[fatigue]" option.


Q: Act I Shop Item "Undying Skull": You cannot spend Surge to recover Fatigue. Does this item prevent to recover fatigue with skills like "Vigor" (Spiritspeaker ) [...]

Quote:
Hi Carsten,
Vigor still works [...]
Thanks,
Nathan Hajek
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
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