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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Evading and exploring question rss

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Barks
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Armidale
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If an Investigator is in a Space with a Monster and adjacent to an Explore Token, and she wants to Explore, first she has to Evade the Monster.

She passes the Evade Test and Explores, and a new room is placed. The app says she "may" move into the new room.

If she then moves, does this require another Evade Test, as it is a voluntary exit of the Space? Or did her original Test suffice?

(I think she wouldn't need a second test. The Learn to Play guide says after a passed test you complete the action as normal)

(This is hypothetical, I haven't played yet and may be missing something)
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Julia
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We have dragged Reason from her Throne and set in her place the Empress of Dreams [liber Endvra]
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No need for the second test. The ivnestigator evaded the monster to resolve an explore action. That explore action resulted in a room being revealed and a free move there. Thus moving is a result of the Explore, not another action, hence, no need to perform another Evade
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Enon Sci
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I've yet to fully digest the rules, but I'd ere on the side of allowing the original test to suffice. The original test was for the exploration, and the movement, as you've described it, is a component of the exploration action.
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Paul Nojima
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I agree... the one evade should be enough. The Explore action you performed was in essence opening the door to the next room which just happened to not have a lock/puzzle attached to it. Thematically, you dodged the monster and made a dash for the door.
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Barks
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Armidale
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Thanks all, confirms my suspicions.
 
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Jason Horner
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Julia is right.

When Exploring a new room, you often are given the option to move one space into the new room. This movement is part of the Explore action and does not require a separate Evade check.

 
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Daryll F
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The simple answer is that anything you do that does not require an action does not require an evade. Optional movement of an explore, a sighting,...
 
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Nobody Special
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Pauljima wrote:
Thematically, you dodged the monster and made a dash for the door.


Following up on this, unless I'm reading range's interaction with doors wrong, is it the case that despite seeing you and swiping at you as you move through the door, the monster then completely forgets where you went and stops chasing after you shut the door behind you due to you no longer being in range?

 
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oldschoolgamr
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bobadubub wrote:
Pauljima wrote:
Thematically, you dodged the monster and made a dash for the door.


Following up on this, unless I'm reading range's interaction with doors wrong, is it the case that despite seeing you and swiping at you as you move through the door, the monster then completely forgets where you went and stops chasing after you shut the door behind you due to you no longer being in range?


Yeah. In one fight I was able to push a cultist through a door, which put me out of range for any Horror check. Nice. Seems like doors in this mansion close securely... But really I like the simplicity as it keeps the nuances from bogging the action down.
 
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Jason Horner
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bobadubub wrote:
Pauljima wrote:
Thematically, you dodged the monster and made a dash for the door.


Following up on this, unless I'm reading range's interaction with doors wrong, is it the case that despite seeing you and swiping at you as you move through the door, the monster then completely forgets where you went and stops chasing after you shut the door behind you due to you no longer being in range?



Not quite. The monster never knew where you were in the first place. The app does not actually know where any of the investigators or the monsters are, so it is incapable of having a monster "follow" an investigator, so it can't "lose" one.

When you tell the app that an investigator needs to make an Evade check against a monster, it doesn't know where the monster or the investigator is. It just generates a random Evade event for you to resolve.

Other than that, Monsters only act in the Mythos Phase when the app says so.
 
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T France
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As far as Evade checks go if you fail but the app doesn't mention forfeiting your action can you move forward with said action? Would you then have to Evade again to try a second action (if your first action was not leaving the space?...)
 
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Jason Horner
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Titeman wrote:
As far as Evade checks go if you fail but the app doesn't mention forfeiting your action can you move forward with said action? Would you then have to Evade again to try a second action (if your first action was not leaving the space?...)


1) Yes. You only forfeit your action if the app specifically says so. As long as the app doesn't say you forfeit your action, you get to finish resolving the action you started (even if you failed the test).

2) Yes. If a monster is in your space and you do something such as Search, you have to make an Evade check first. If you succeed and then move as your second action, you are still in the space with the monster and are moving away from it, so you have to make another Evade check.
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Jay Kiley
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
No need for the second test. The ivnestigator evaded the monster to resolve an explore action. That explore action resulted in a room being revealed and a free move there. Thus moving is a result of the Explore, not another action, hence, no need to perform another Evade


If the App uses the word "may", then isn't it a voluntary movement? And if it is a voluntary movement, then isn't an evade action required?

From page 8 of the Rules Reference:

"If an investigator in a monster's space attempts to move out of the monster's space voluntarily or perform any action other than the attack action or move action, that investigator must resolve an evade check against the monster in his space." (Emphasis mine.)

And from page 13:

"Voluntary movement is movement generated by an effect that uses the phrase “may” or “up to.” For example, “you may move 1 space into the explored area.”

So if the App uses the word "may" (and even uses the exact example that the TC is inquiring about), then how does this particular voluntary movement not trigger the evade requirement?

I'm not trying to be difficult. (In fact, I'd love to be wrong about this.) But the rules seem to say something different than what you're saying here.

(By the way, I read and enjoyed your review of the game.)

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Jay Kiley
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jlhorner1974 wrote:
Julia is right.

When Exploring a new room, you often are given the option to move one space into the new room. This movement is part of the Explore action and does not require a separate Evade check.



I just asked Julia a question about the rules. (Should be in the post above.)

Can you explain how you're reaching your conclusion? I'm curious. (And again, I want to be wrong. But I think the rules imply other than what's being concluded here.)

Thanks!
 
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Anthony Harlan

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GreatDebate wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
No need for the second test. The ivnestigator evaded the monster to resolve an explore action. That explore action resulted in a room being revealed and a free move there. Thus moving is a result of the Explore, not another action, hence, no need to perform another Evade


If the App uses the word "may", then isn't it a voluntary movement? And if it is a voluntary movement, then isn't an evade action required?

From page 8 of the Rules Reference:

"If an investigator in a monster's space attempts to move out of the monster's space voluntarily or perform any action other than the attack action or move action, that investigator must resolve an evade check against the monster in his space." (Emphasis mine.)

And from page 13:

"Voluntary movement is movement generated by an effect that uses the phrase “may” or “up to.” For example, “you may move 1 space into the explored area.”

So if the App uses the word "may" (and even uses the exact example that the TC is inquiring about), then how does this particular voluntary movement not trigger the evade requirement?

I'm not trying to be difficult. (In fact, I'd love to be wrong about this.) But the rules seem to say something different than what you're saying here.

(By the way, I read and enjoyed your review of the game.)



Rules-as-written: I agree with you and hope we're wrong.

I want to believe that the "voluntary movement" rule is for move-attack-GTFO turns. If you save a movement, and then run from a monster you didn't kill (or the monster who didn't notice you searching (or the one who did notice, and stopped you (etc (etc)))), you should have to evade to leave.

I can build a thematic narrative each way, so thematic doesn't (and really shouldn't) change much...

The conflict is, "action succeeds as normal" versus "voluntary movement"

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Jay Kiley
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Yeah. I've been playing by requiring the evade roll on all voluntary moves. (I'm a stickler for the rules as written.) And, to be honest, it hasn't impacted play in any way except to make it slightly more challenging. So I'm happy. Nothing's really broken.

But if they errata the rules somehow and make "side-effect movements" free, then I'd be happy with that too. It's just less clunky with one roll.

But, if they do it this way, then it opens up new rules questions. For example, will the movement derived from the "move-the-barricade" component-action (associated with the Barricade feature) trigger a second evade roll?

Under the current rules, yes. Very simply, it's voluntary movement because it uses the word "may". But a change in the rules to exclude side effect types of movements (or even movements derived from the App) would just raise new (and probably more) questions. Exceptions usually create more anomolies. (As a lawyer, I've learned this many times over

So rules-wise, it might be cleaner to have one easy, specific rule.

Just my two cents.
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Christina Crouch
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For what its worth, I would say that the movement you receive for exploring is part and parcel of the overall Explore Action that you already made your evade for. You are not starting a new move action, you are just completing your explore action.

Just my thoughts.
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Grif Grif
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
GreatDebate wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
No need for the second test. The ivnestigator evaded the monster to resolve an explore action. That explore action resulted in a room being revealed and a free move there. Thus moving is a result of the Explore, not another action, hence, no need to perform another Evade


If the App uses the word "may", then isn't it a voluntary movement? And if it is a voluntary movement, then isn't an evade action required?

From page 8 of the Rules Reference:

"If an investigator in a monster's space attempts to move out of the monster's space voluntarily or perform any action other than the attack action or move action, that investigator must resolve an evade check against the monster in his space." (Emphasis mine.)

And from page 13:

"Voluntary movement is movement generated by an effect that uses the phrase “may” or “up to.” For example, “you may move 1 space into the explored area.”

So if the App uses the word "may" (and even uses the exact example that the TC is inquiring about), then how does this particular voluntary movement not trigger the evade requirement?

I'm not trying to be difficult. (In fact, I'd love to be wrong about this.) But the rules seem to say something different than what you're saying here.

(By the way, I read and enjoyed your review of the game.)



Rules-as-written: I agree with you and hope we're wrong.



From the rules as written, 2 evade checks would be necessary.
 
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