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Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game» Forums » General

Subject: does this game has a 'puzzle' feel? rss

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matheus cohen
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Hi,

as in the title, does this game has a puzzle feel? either this or the long night

because most of my gaming group like to play 'puzzles' only.

Puzzle like in pandemic or anything of the sorts, were you carefully plan your moves on rounds to come?

or at least, if not able to plan, a heavy thinking game?
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Yes, both this and Long Night have that puzzle feel. Everyone is generally working together to solve the main objective before the game ends. Of course, there's a monkey wrench thrown in that one of the players might be a betrayer and not want the main objective to be completed, so that's different from Pandemic. Also, each player has their own secret objective in addition to the main objective and sometimes those objectives are in direct conflict.

So, it's not straightforward... but it does still have that puzzle feel for me.
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Mark Blasco

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It sort of has that feel, but there is a lot of hidden information, the possibility of a traitor, and a lot of random events that come up. You certainly can try to figure things out several rounds ahead, but things change very quickly. Additionally, since everyone has a secret objective, even if there is no traitor, the puzzle you are trying to solve is not going to be the same as the puzzle everyone else is trying to solve.
 
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Scott Mohnkern
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I don't know whether I'd use the word puzzle, but you are right, it has a huge thinking component to it.

The reason why I wouldn't call it a "puzzle" is that there are a lot of unknowns as the game progresses. Crossroad cards, etc, change the behavior of the game throughout the play.

When I think of puzzle games I tend to think of games like Space Sheep where other than the cards in each players hand, everything is "out there in the open."

So yes, there's a very heavy thinking/planning component, but I wouldn't use the word puzzle.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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The way it usually works out in my group is that on the surface it is a straightforward puzzle that we are all working together to solve -- the Main Objective. But underneath, we are all working on additional things secretly.

So to an outside observer, most of our games look like we are all playing completely cooperatively. But if you look more closely, you will see strange things going on. Why is the Sheriff spending so much time in the Hospital when it looks like he could be of better use in the Gas Station during this current Fuel crisis? Why is the Psychic putting up barricades where no zombies have ever even appeared? But those little anomalies don't come up in conversation very much -- we all know that we have secrets. If I press someone about their secrets, they might press me for mine.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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But Matheus did mention Pandemic as an example of a puzzle feel, and that has plenty of random things going on.
 
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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randomlife wrote:
But Matheus did mention Pandemic as an example of a puzzle feel, and that has plenty of random things going on.


Yup. When i say 'puzzle' feel, not a straight up puzzle, pandemic is what comes to my mind first

Because when playing, we take more time planning togheter what we are going to do, and thinking like 'if we dont go there, we might lose' 'the risk of going there is hogher but we may cure a disease', than actually doing stuff. There are randomness and luck factor, but you must plan out.

I know there are this things in DoW but i did not know if it was as relevant.


I'm not sure if i explained myself correctly, my english is rusty
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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You might want to watch a video or two of the game being played. I bet there are some in the Videos section: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/150376/dead-winter-cross...
 
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matheus cohen
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randomlife wrote:
You might want to watch a video or two of the game being played. I bet there are some in the Videos section: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/150376/dead-winter-cross...


already saw a bunch, but watching & playing & asking for opnions always end up as different things.(at least for me)

as the game itself makes you not reveal too much of your plans, i don't know what people were thinking during play, if they were thinking of future plans or what.

but thanks for taking your time to help me out, and i'll be watching more of those videos just so that maybe i can grasp a thing or 2
 
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Marco Schaub
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I would boldly say that there is very little puzzle feel in this game. Much less so than in Pandemic.

For one, there is much more hidden information: You have to roll a die every time you move, you don't know what cards you'll draw, everybody has a secret agenda, and there might even be a traitor.

Secondly, because of the steahlty nature of the gameplay, it is not a straight puzzle. In Pandemic it's pretty simple what the goal is and you can work toward that as a team. This is not so much the case with Dead of Winter.

However, if you choose to play the fully cooperative variant, it becomes more puzzle like. You don't have to second guess everybody's motives because there is no traitor and since there are no secret objectives, the cards in everybody's hands are open information as well.
 
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Karl
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I agree with Marco. IMHO this has a quite different feel to Pandemic. If you look for a game more into that direction I'd take the old Lord of the Rings game or Flashpoint.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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The main difference is that those are pure co-ops. So I would say that Dead of Winter has the puzzle feel for me, with the added wrinkle that it's not a pure co-op. So if you only like puzzles with everyone completely working together, then yeah, DoW may not be for you. DoW, to me, is a puzzle-y game in that we all have to figure out how to get things done together, but realizing that the puzzle solving part of it won't be completely efficient.
 
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Erwin Anciano
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If by "Puzzle Feel" we're referring to how you are trying to figure out the most optimal play in order to beat the game, Dead of Winter has that at a glance, but it's quickly washed away because the situation changes pretty much constantly.

The way I understand the "puzzle" feel you're describing, you're trying to maximize your moves planning things way in advance. In a pure co-op with little hidden information and a minimized random component like Pandemic, this is much easier to do, it feels more like a Euro min-max.

Dead of Winter is really nothing like that. There's a much stronger focus on the narrative, the amount of dice rolling completely dictates what you can and can't do, and often you're just making the most of a bad situation, especially when you're moving and the Exposure dice bites you in the ass. Add in the hidden objectives everybody has and the very real struggle of randomly going through the location decks in search of the item you need, there's very little chance your well-laid plans will get executed.
 
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