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Subject: Which faction is weakest and why rss

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stu ma
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What's your oppinion on the topic?
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Andy Szymas
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Whichever one I'm playing, because I'm terrible.
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John Smales
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The "sharks" may disagree, but I think each faction has strengths and weaknesses that players need to understand in order to achieve victory. I've only played two-player games, but we played each faction based on its unique strengths and weaknesses. Our experience has been pretty even in terms of victories. Win or lose, every game is still very tense and fun--with a chance to turn things around right up to the last turn. I think it comes down to preference--and an argument can be made for each faction's prowess. I think some factions are more forgiving than others, but experienced players will compensate.
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Genestealer Patriarch
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Marines, hands down.

In all the dozens of games our group have played (usually 4 player), they have won once.

Marines have good defensive stats and cards, but:
- They have the weakest dice stats - the combined attack scores of their T0 and T1 infantry is 3, compared to 4 of the other races.
- Their dominate ability is IMO the weakest of the 4 (looks sexy, but I think it is often a trap).
- Although they are good at the shield/morale tactic to win battles, they lack the starting ability to kill off their opponents, who can often retreat and regroup. Over time this puts them at a resource disadvantage to the others.
- Their starting tile is the weakest of the four in terms of tokens to collect. The cache is the best IMO, Marines only have a double reinforcement or double hammers. Unless you are using them quickly, they will get oversupplied and start losing the extras.
- The event cards are generally OK but nothing fantastic like the other factions.

Their main weakness is that they have no significant movement ability beyond the normal plodding along with their spacecraft. The others get:
- Orks - Ork Roks (don't need spacecraft), plus an event card which lets them appear anywhere
- Chaos - dominate "teleport" ability (the best of the 4 factions), warp storm manipulation or outright ignoring;
- Eldar - best fleet, doesn't suffer from "running out of ships", a couple of event cards allowing them to place anywhere.

The only ability the Marines have for appearing out of nowhere is "Drop Pods" order upgrade which is very situational and needs 2 cities to get the card plus at least one battle barge to try and make it work, so it only works later in the game. The other abilities (drop pod combat card) only boost an existing army already present; the other factions already have variations on this ability.

We have found that in the early game, the other factions are running circles round them, grabbing objectives and high materiel worlds. The marines struggle to keep up, and generally rely on the other three cancelling each other out, making mistakes, and ignoring the marines as a threat. Unfortunately turtling up (the Marine tendency) is guaranteed to lose you the game.
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Scott Randolph
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Patriarchxyz wrote:
Marines, hands down.

In all the dozens of games our group have played (usually 4 player), they have won once.
...Unfortunately turtling up (the Marine tendency) is guaranteed to lose you the game.


"+1"

We've played 9 games total, the Ultramarines have won only once (in a 3p game). In 4p games, total of 5, the Ultramarines have never won. The Orks and the Eldar are easily the two best Factions.
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Sebastian Grab
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After 30 games played, I definitly agree that Space Marines are the weakest. I used to think that Eldar takes this one, but my opinion changed with time. I won't repeat points that were made in this topic about SM, as they are all valid, but I think it all comes down to mobility, which marines don't have. And it's not like they are better at combat than other factions either...

If FS wasn't already forgoten by FFG, I would hope for some changes and erratas. You could begin with small things like:
- Drop Pod Assoult - allow scouts to trigger the second ability,only makes sanse.
- Rites of Battle - remove the word "order" from it. This will make it be at least decent.
- Give them a cache token at home or allow the dominate ability to upgrade units for free. Yes, I said it. The ability is so bad I think it could be buffed without breaking balance. What's the point of it right now? People point out that you can avoind building cities, but you still need them to use the land riders efficent...



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steve mathers
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I feel like the marines start strong, and are best played conservatively. Their units are hard to kill, and they can get to tanks very quickly. I think with them you have to start in a central location so you aernt too far away from objectives, and use your early marines/tanks to expand in turn 1 and 2 before other factions can heavy up. Once you have a strong hold on 3 central systems, you can start to bastion-factory them, and keeping your lines of retreat open on the defensive means you should rarely cop huge losses, even when someone comes at you hard. Just a big, hard to budge barnacle in the centre of the map, creeping towards objectives in all directions in a game of inches.

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Alex Almond
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Its a shame the space marines don't start with a bastion, as it would work well with buying order upgrades and some of the scheme tactic cards.

When I last played space marines I drew the get a order upgrade reducing the cost by number of bastions on the first turn which sucked because frankly it's not worth buying a bastion of the first turn there's already to much stuff you need to buy/do without pot lucking to get that card.

It always feels like a bit of a wasted order when you just buy a Bastion with a build order, it's not so bad when you can mix it in with buying units but often the places you want to build a bastion don't have an existing factory so it's just not efficient.

I'm really surprised that SM don't have another route to create bastions via strategize/domination/unit conversion.
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Sebastian Grab
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Darkmancer wrote:

When I last played space marines I drew the get a order upgrade reducing the cost by number of bastions on the first turn which sucked because frankly it's not worth buying a bastion of the first turn there's already to much stuff you need to buy/do without pot lucking to get that card.


Well to buy anything good with this card you need both a city and some bastions (unless you want Rein of Fire...). Drawing Rites of Battle turn 1 is like getting slaped in the face. Iæm pretty sure it's the worste event card in the game, second being Unwavering Resolve, also a SM cards, which is just way for situational.
 
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Benjamin
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SM are very strong and my favourite faction. Strong early game so secure a good start, followed by the almost unbalanced break the line for superior mid game (which is when the game ends anyway).
Their down-side is dependency on early 2 cities and their lack of mobility, both requiring good map building skills to shine.

Weakest faction is Eldar - more difficult to play and most dependent on not being first player. Being first player as Eldar ends up a massive disadvantage.
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Joachim Francois
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I must agree with the Space Marines as mentioned above.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Zepherion wrote:
I must agree with the Space Marines as mentioned above.


Them being the weakest or being very strong? I think I lean towards weak side myself.
 
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Samuel Bailey
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I think the idea above of Space Marines starting with a Bastion might be enough to balance them out with other factions. It at least will help in the start of the game where they can have difficulty getting off their feet.
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conan the slayer
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Inconmon wrote:
SM are very strong and my favourite faction. Strong early game so secure a good start, followed by the almost unbalanced break the line for superior mid game (which is when the game ends anyway).
Their down-side is dependency on early 2 cities and their lack of mobility, both requiring good map building skills to shine.

Weakest faction is Eldar - more difficult to play and most dependent on not being first player. Being first player as Eldar ends up a massive disadvantage.


I agree SM are strong.
Also we have found in our dozen or more games that the battle card 'break the line' https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2602907/umbralaeronaut
is very OP and has lead to many frustrating games, as a result we have had to house rule some modifications to that and only that particular card.
I'm very surprised no one else has mentioned it.

We have found Orcs to be the most powerful, their dominate ability is excellent as it gives them a free build action.
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John Fortune
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Our group thinks Space Marines are the weakest. But maybe we aren't playing them right...
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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noblejohn wrote:
Our group thinks Space Marines are the weakest. But maybe we aren't playing them right...


Clearly you need Jim Raynor leading them.
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K
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Whichever faction starts as first player on first turn is weakest.
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Steve Hope
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I also think SM is the weakest faction. I would guess it goes:

1. Orks
2. CSM (maybe only if they are able to get an early marker--good players can prevent this or choose to allow it understanding that there'll need to be more attention paid to Chaos later on if so)
3. Eldar
4. SM
 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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All are strong and all are weak, each in their own way! It's up to the players to play to the faction's strength and not the weakness..
 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Inconmon wrote:
SM are very strong and my favourite faction. Strong early game so secure a good start, followed by the almost unbalanced break the line for superior mid game (which is when the game ends anyway).
Their down-side is dependency on early 2 cities and their lack of mobility, both requiring good map building skills to shine.

Weakest faction is Eldar - more difficult to play and most dependent on not being first player. Being first player as Eldar ends up a massive disadvantage.


Eldar is an excellent faction and is quite powerful when played correctly. Those Tier 1 units above are very powerful and their mobility is second to none.
 
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A. B.
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If some factions are stronger than others, isn't the game broken? We've played Orks vs CSM match and had a feeling that at some point CSM player could do nothing to oppose orks ground forces, especially after reaching tier 2and 3 orkiestra cards...I love the game but I am a bit worried about this feeling of helplessness in the eyes of my opponent.
 
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Nick Clinite
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For a game rated so highly, it's odd to hear that one faction has a noticeable handicap...
 
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Scott Randolph
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islan wrote:
For a game rated so highly, it's odd to hear that one faction has a noticeable handicap...


In our [9] 4-player games, Orks have won 5, Eldar have won 4...in all of our other games combined, Ultramarines have won only once, in a 3-player game.
 
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Nick Clinite
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SFRR wrote:
In our [9] 4-player games, Orks have won 5, Eldar have won 4...in all of our other games combined, Ultramarines have won only once, in a 3-player game.


So why isn't this game getting torn apart in reviews, again?
 
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Andy Szymas
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islan wrote:
SFRR wrote:
In our [9] 4-player games, Orks have won 5, Eldar have won 4...in all of our other games combined, Ultramarines have won only once, in a 3-player game.


So why isn't this game getting torn apart in reviews, again?


Because a game can be (allegedly) unbalanced and still be super duper fun/awesome?
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