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No Retreat! The North African Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Just Got The Game - A Couple of Questions rss

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Soon Louis
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I just bought this game and also have No Retreat Russia. I was a little surprised that the "base" rules are not the same as it would have made it easier to learn. For example in this game it cost +1 to enter a ZOC whereas in NR Russia it is the reverse, +1 to leave an enemy ZOC. I am impressed with the quality of the components especially the mounted maps and thick counters.
I have a couple of questions, probably the first of many as my friend and I tried the Crusader scenario as a learning exercise.
In rule 5.2 about supply capacity you refer to "on his supply map". Does supply map mean the map that is currently being used for play. For example if it was map 4 the Germans would get 3 SP and the British 5 SP. In addition, whoever controls Mersa Matruh would get one additional SP. Is this correct? Or does supply map mean something else?
When we played Crusader we thought the port supply numbers indicated how many units could be supplied by that port if those units were cut off but upon further reading of the rules it appears that only Tobruk can be a supply source for a maximum of two units. Thank you in advance.
 
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Carl Paradis
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SLouis39 wrote:
I just bought this game and also have No Retreat Russia. I was a little surprised that the "base" rules are not the same as it would have made it easier to learn. For example in this game it cost +1 to enter a ZOC whereas in NR Russia it is the reverse, +1 to leave an enemy ZOC. .


When I made the first "No Retreat!" (russian Front) game I had no plans to make more of the same, so it developed as some-kind of "series" by accident. Bu there was bound to be some differences between the game anway, to cover adequately the different scales and tempos of the games. I am still trying to get those games as similar as possible, but this is NOT a "cookie cutter one size fits all" exercise. To use the exact same rules for all the games would not work.

NR1 Russian Front: 100km hexes, 2-months turns, Armies/Fronts.
NR2 Afrika: 20km hexes, 1-2 months turns (split into half week offensives), Divisions.
NR2 Crete: 2km hexes, 6-hours turns, Battalions.
NR 3 France/Poland: 30km hexes, 4 days turns, Corps.
NR4 Italy: 20Km hexes, 1 month turns (split into weekly offensives), Divisions.


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Carl Paradis
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Don't forget to download the "Living Rules":

http://www.gmtgames.com/noretreat2/NR2_LivingRules_5-15.pdf

http://www.gmtgames.com/noretreat2/NR2_LivingPlaybook_5-15.p...

SLouis39 wrote:

In rule 5.2 about supply capacity you refer to "on his supply map". Does supply map mean the map that is currently being used for play. For example if it was map 4 the Germans would get 3 SP and the British 5 SP. In addition, whoever controls Mersa Matruh would get one additional SP. Is this correct? Or does supply map mean something else?


No this is not correct.

Rule 5.2 says:

A player’s Supply Map is the one on the Strategic Map
Control Display where his own round Control marker is
located (see 10.1).


Plus you have this:

Play Aid: For ease of play, the total SPs
that each player receives if he controls the
whole map are indicated on the Strategic map—in a gray
circle for the Axis, and in a tan circle for the Allies
.


So it all depends on where the Control markers are.

So you get the points for your supply map (where your control marker is located) PLUS any Ports you control on the active map.

So I cannot answer about MAP 4 unless I know where both player's map control markers are located. I.E: Who controls Map 4? The Germans, the British? Is it contested control (See rule 15.1)?

All the Possibilities:

- If contested Control (both control markers on Map 4):
Germans 3SP, British 5SP, +1SP to the player controlling Mersa Matruh.

- British Controls Map 4 (thus the German Control marker is thus on Map 3):
Germans 7SP, British 5SP, +1SP to the player controlling Mersa Matruh.

- German Controls Map 4 (thus the British Control marker is thus on Map 5):
Germans 3SP, British 8SP, +1SP to the player controlling Mersa Matruh.

Edit: I don't have the game in front of me right now, so am using the 1st proofs pictures on BGG as a guide. I don't think the supply values differ in the actual game.
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Soon Louis
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Carl,I would like to clarify the Mechanized Response Rule (13.0). After the phasing player has placed his target markers on the hexes he is going to attack the non-phasing player can place counterblow markers. In the rule the placement of counterblow markers is described:

and by the Non-Phasing player placing Counterblow
markers—on Non-Phasing (“defending”) units
in hexes adjacent to Phasing Player units that are across
non-Prohibited hexsides).

However, the Mechanized Response Rule says the following:

After all Counterblow markers have been
placed, any Mechanized unit of the Non-
Phasing Player which is under a Counterblow
marker and not in an EZOC may
move up to two hexes (not MPs; however
Prohibited terrain effects and EZOC restrictions still apply)
along with its Counterblow marker.


Since the non-phasing player can only place counterblow markers on his units that are adjacent to enemy units that are across non-prohibited sides how does a mechanized response situation occur where those units are not in an EZOC?

Thanks in advance for your clarification.
 
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Carl Paradis
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The Procedure explains in broad terms what the Counterblows are generally used for and their combat effect, but does not exclusively forbids placing Counterblow markers in hexes not adjacent to enemy units. It does state that adjacent units with these markers must be attacked in the combat phase: this is the goal of that procedure.

Sorry if that got you confused.

In the Battle declaration it is stated ( with no "must place" location for the markers):

Second, after the Phasing Player completes his
declarations, the Non-Phasing Player declares
additional Target Hexes that must also be at
tacked by the Phasing Player if adjacent at the start of
this Combat Phase
by marking each such hex with one
of his Counterblow markers, by flipping an available
Target marker paid for in one of his previous Player Turns
(see 11.7), or by the play of an Event card allowing such
placement


SLouis39 wrote:

Since the non-phasing player can only place counterblow markers on his units that are adjacent to enemy units that are across non-prohibited sides ...


This is inexact, nowhere in the rules is it started that you can only place your markers on adjacent units. There is no rule that forces a player to place those Counterblow markers in a hex adjacent to an enemy unit. You can place them on non-phasing units not adjacent to enemies (albeit this would be a marker wasted if placed on infantry units).

Also, check the example of play on page 16 of the playbook:

In the following Movement Phase the Axis player
moves Maletti to defend Sidi Barrani. The 21st Corps enters
the fray moving up from the south and no Battles are
declared. However, the Allied player flips O’Connor to his
Counterblow side, using his special ability. Since the 4th
Tank is not adjacent to any enemy, it can move two hexes

(along with the O’Connor Counterblow marker) next to
Sidi Barrani.

 
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Soon Louis
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Carl as an owner of No Retreat The Russian Front I was confused because the placement of counterblows in the North African Front is different than The Russian Front. Here is the wording from RF.

[10.1.2] Counterblows Step: After
the Phasing Player has declared all
his voluntary attacks, the Non-Phasing
Player may declare additional
target hexes that must be attacked by the Phasing Player
that Combat Phase (these are “involuntary attacks” and
are called Counterblows).

If the target hexes "must be attacked" they obviously can only be placed on hexes adjacent to enemy units.

However I went back and re-read the NAF rule and it says:

"the Non-Phasing Player declares
additional Target Hexes that must also be attacked attacked
by the Phasing Player if adjacent at the start of
this Combat Phase"

I guess I should have checked out the examples of play because it is easy to miss the "if adjacent at the start of this combat phase". I think it would have been better to put a note in the NAF rules, that unlike RF you can place a CB marker on hexes that are not adjacent to enemy units. This would have made the Mechanized Response Rule more understandable.

Thanks for your reply.
 
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Carl Paradis
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SLouis39 wrote:
Carl as an owner of No Retreat The Russian Front I was confused because the placement of counterblows in the North African Front is different than The Russian Front. Here is the wording from RF.


Right. Sorry about that.

Again: the games were NOT supposed to be a series at first. There are and will be some differences amongst the games, like the one you have noticed. Different settings need different mechanisms. I do try to keep them all as similar as possible without compromising gameplay and historical "accuracy" too much. meeple
 
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Soon Louis
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Carl, another question. Although boxes and minefields are referred to as units I would like to clarify that they negate enemy ZOC for the purposes of tracing a supply path. Thanks.
 
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Carl Paradis
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SLouis39 wrote:
Carl, another question. Although boxes and minefields are referred to as units I would like to clarify that they negate enemy ZOC for the purposes of tracing a supply path. Thanks.


Yes they do indde block EZOCs as they are units.

Note that in No Retreat 4! Italian Front: 1943-45 the hex-shaped Forts are not units but markers (their strength values are also preceded by a plus sign. Ex: "+3"). So in that other games they do not block supply lines and are not worth anything if alone in a hex: they add their strength to other units only.
 
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