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Subject: What do you expect for $25? rss

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Dave Platt
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I'm putting a game together which I would like to sell via ebay. It has a board, 90 tiles, 3 packs of cards, 16 wooden pawns, a dice, money, a reference card and rulebook.
Making money ain't my aim, my aim is to get the game out there and in order to do that I want it to be affordable.
Now as much as I would like to make people happy by giving them free games, it's just not possible without me ending up sleeping in a doorway. So I do have to cost these games at a price to cover production and maybe over time recoup some of my tooling expenses, and $25 just about fits the bill.
So if you were paying $25 not including p&p (around $19.50 to the US) What do you expect for your money?
For instance My game has some good artwork but it's not elaborate and covering everything, the box will be basic and have a cardboard tray, the cards won't have rounded corners. This aside the game equipment will be finished to a good standard.
 
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Dave P wrote:
I'm putting a game together which I would like to sell via ebay. It has a board, 90 tiles, 3 packs of cards, 16 wooden pawns, a dice, money, a reference card and rulebook.
Making money ain't my aim, my aim is to get the game out there and in order to do that I want it to be affordable.
Now as much as I would like to make people happy by giving them free games, it's just not possible without me ending up sleeping in a doorway. So I do have to cost these games at a price to cover production and maybe over time recoup some of my tooling expenses, and $25 just about fits the bill.
So if you were paying $25 not including pp (around $19.50 to the US) What do you expect for your money?
For instance My game has some good artwork but it's not elaborate and covering everything, the box will be basic and have a cardboard tray, the cards won't have rounded corners. This aside the game equipment will be finished to a good standard.

$25 is cheap for a good game. Your components sound reasonable.
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Darth Heisenberg
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Sounds great components wise. Then again, it's the actual gameplay that counts, get that right.
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Johannes Blank
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Just out of curiosity, why will the cards' corners not be rounded? is this expensive or somehow elaborate? I'd thought this was easy to achieve.
 
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Dave Platt
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Kolmogorv wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why will the cards' corners not be rounded? is this expensive or somehow elaborate? I'd thought this was easy to achieve.


There are 110 cards (440 corners) per game. I'm already facing a lot of unpaid work cranking these games out. I just don't think my wrists will hold up to the repetitive strain of rounding all those corners.
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maf man
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have you looked into using bgg more?
first off selling here would be easy and cheap comparatively
You could also have a pnp version posted to get people to try the game and get it out in the world without any more physical work on your end.
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April W
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$25 seems reasonable for what you listed.
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Andrew J.
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I would look into bulk orders for the cards from The Game Crafter or PrinterStudio -- those guys make professional quality cards and can do all the printing for you. I know if you order in bulk their price per card comes down a good bit, so you could order about 100 sets to save money and just package them with the rest of the game.
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Registrau wrote:
Sounds great components wise. Then again, it's the actual gameplay that counts, get that right.
Second that. Don't skimp when it comes to behind-the-scenes unsexy things like getting the rulebook copyedited and proofread and accurate. I don't care if a game is $15 with great pieces; if I can't figure out how to play it and have to download tons of errata, I am irritated that I spent $15.
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Dave Platt
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mafman6 wrote:
have you looked into using bgg more?
first off selling here would be easy and cheap comparatively
You could also have a pnp version posted to get people to try the game and get it out in the world without any more physical work on your end.


I'm thinking it'll reach a bigger audience on ebay.

As far as pnp is concerned, I think it's a lot to ask of people to cut out 90 tiles, 110 cards and a board, when I can provide it all ready to play at what is hopefully a reasonable price. All my tiles, cards and boards will be on the appropriate thickness card with a properly laminated finish (not hot laminated with a transparent edge but cold laminated with very thin laminate film. The cards feel just like playing cards)
 
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maf man
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well the more opportunities you give the more people you'll reach, and I think thats worth the minimal effort. I am one who practices "netflix and pnp" regularly, and though I'm slow making the games I barely notice the effort it takes me.
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Dave Platt
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I'd need to get them at less than $3 per game (that's 3 packs totalling 110 cards)in order to make it cost effective.
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John Holder
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If you do mini card decks, (1.75x2.5") you can have one hundred 108-card decks printed for $5.07 each at superiorPOD... and shrink-wrapped for an additional $0.15 per deck.

http://www.superiorpod.com/product/mini-size-custom-card-dec...

Your time is worth something, don't forget... and then you'd have pro-quality decks instead of hand assembled.

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Dave P wrote:
I think it's a lot to ask of people to cut out 90 tiles, 110 cards and a board, when I can provide it all ready to play at what is hopefully a reasonable price.
I have to disagree here: you should let people make their own decision about what is too much work. People are willing to do a lot if it is "free" (their time costs money but they might not matter). It is a lot harder to get them to part with even $2. If you send this out into the world and people pnp it, that is the best advertising you can buy.
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Trevor Taylor
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Not that I have anything against PnP, but if the OP truly thinks the game is good enough and is selling it on the hopes of getting it out there in order to find a publisher, then they should avoid PnP.
Although it's not unheard of, it's very rare for a publisher to pick-up a PnP game as it's far harder for them to predict the likely audience for the game and expected sales (it could already be in everyone's homes). Selling cheap is far better, as you can also tell the publisher exactly how many games you've already sold and they can take that into account.
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Frank
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Dave P wrote:


I'm thinking it'll reach a bigger audience on ebay.


ebay is a great marketplace for existing products, not so much for an unknown product. Unless people specifically search for your game, its just going to get buried under the sea of more popular games.
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Ian Williams
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Dave P wrote:
I'm thinking it'll reach a bigger audience on ebay.


Why not sell on both?
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Trevor Taylor
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Frankiedamn wrote:
Dave P wrote:


I'm thinking it'll reach a bigger audience on ebay.


ebay is a great marketplace for existing products, not so much for an unknown product. Unless people specifically search for your game, its just going to get buried under the sea of more popular games.


...Plus it doesn't hurt to sell in multiple locations as long as you keep the stock levels correct between them.

ninja'd kind of
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J. Simcoe
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I would agree with the above. Most people tend to buy things after searching for specific items or keywords, they usually don't just casually browse looking for things that may interest them. You would probably need to advertise elsewhere to get the interest, also with ebay you would have to take into account that about 10-15% of the $25.00 is going to be taken by fees.
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Tony Go
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$25 is cheap, $45 is not. Find a way to save on postage and shippig, either through using flatrate boxes or making components lighter.

If you are hand producing each copy, it's also an opportunity to make each game unique with something as simple as a serial number. That's a low cost way to add more perceived value given the circumstances.
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John F.
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Component wise it sounds fine for $25. Can you give a gist about how the game plays?
 
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Dave Platt
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Thanks guys, the feedback is great and just what I was hoping for. I've been out for a couple of hours so I'll try and work my way through all the points you've raised.

First pnp. I'm thinking about it now. I still intend to put the game out myself, I've simply done too much work not to now, but I will start looking at pnp once I've got the game ready to go. I take the point that it could be another way to get the game noticed.

The mini decks wouldn't work for a number of reasons.
Some of my cards have quite a lot of text on them and shrinking it down would make it too small. The mini decks are quite a bit more expensive than the cards I can knock out and as I've said I need to keep the price down. They would also cost me to have them shipped adding more expense. The cards get used a lot in the game and I think they need to be a size people are used to in games.

About ebay. Although I favour selling on ebay, I will be pushing the game through other avenues to get it noticed.
I have already taken into account ebay & paypal fees.

I'm shipping from the UK so the best I can do for p&p to the US is around $20. It sucks that ebay, paypal and the post office make a killing out of my creation and leave me working for nothing, but I want to get this thing out there at a price people will pay.

Finally, "How the game plays" I'm sorry and I just know some folks will think I'm being paranoid but I'm just not willing to plant the seed in anybody elses head at the moment, but I promise that as soon as I've sold one game I'll be on here telling you all about it.

Once again guys, thanks for all this great feedback.

Edit - I had considered giving each game a serial number but what I hadn't thought about was Tony Go's suggestion that this uniqueness would give added value. Way to go Tony Go you've just given me some food for thought. I'm forever in your debt.
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How will you market it, OP, without telling people how it plays?
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Dave Platt
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All will be revealed once it's on sale. I'm maybe a month away from having the games ready to go. I know I'm being paranoid but I just can't help it.
 
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Ben T

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Not to make what is possibly a dumb suggestion, but have you considered doing a kickstarter, rather than trying to sell a new product direct through ebay? If the game is solid, particularly at your price point, you can get a lot more eyeballs and thus purchases, and if it takes off enough to fund, you will have a large enough order to have a production company do the actual construction, rather than doing it yourself.
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