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Subject: Silly question about the prologue: Enmity sticker on your leader (NOT A SPOILER; IT'S IN THE PDF ;) ) rss

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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Quote:
Have each player place one of their province enmity stickers (from the permanent enmity sheet) on their leader card to show which province it belongs to (it’s not really enmity, just a province identification).


From the pictures I've seen of the Leader cards, I don't see where these stickers are going to go.
Can someone confirm that there's an obvious place to put this "province identification sticker" onto your leaders initially?

I am just so excited about this game (and won't see it until the preorders ship; I'm not a Gencon VIG by any means), I'm looking for any tiny preparation question I can get answered

 
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Daniel Danzer
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Simple answer: There is none. But I think it would be helpful to put it on the top left corner, like the guild symbols of the advisors.
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Keith Pishnery
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I'd say it goes in the same general spot as the guild symbol on the Advisors. Look at the advisors and leaders layout.
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3002145/seafall

EDIT: Got ninja'd while trying to figure out how to link to an image on BGG with a Geek Link (I never did)

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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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OK, that's good enough. I'll come up with another silly question in a couple weeks while I wait; gotta space them out.

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The leaders look like they are wearing color-coded clothing for the provinces. I don't think all of them have been revealed, but I've seen green, blue, and red outfits. If the remaining two are purple and black, there's no need to sticker the cards. (As long as your favorite leader portrait matches your favorite province icon, at least.)
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
The leaders look like they are wearing color-coded clothing for the provinces. I don't think all of them have been revealed, but I've seen green, blue, and red outfits. If the remaining two are purple and black, there's no need to sticker the cards. (As long as your favorite leader portrait matches your favorite province icon, at least.)


Well.. if the rules say to put a sticker on, I'd put a sticker on even if the color matches. At very least, the game will assume you have one fewer sticker available of your color in case that is relevant....
(We don't necessarily know all of the things Enmity stickers can do, do we?)
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Keith Pishnery
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This brings up a question I've been wondering...why in the world are you forced to use an enmity sticker for the Leaders when they could have just had an extra sticker on the sheet that didn't have the enmity marks on it? It would not have changed the cost of printing/materials/design at all.

Unless...speculation...it needed to be enmity for a later development in the campaign.
 
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Becq Starforged
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kpishnery wrote:
This brings up a question I've been wondering...why in the world are you forced to use an enmity sticker for the Leaders when they could have just had an extra sticker on the sheet that didn't have the enmity marks on it? It would not have changed the cost of printing/materials/design at all.

Unless...speculation...it needed to be enmity for a later development in the campaign.

One less bit of art in need of development?

I dunno. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense. I guess if it were me deciding, I would have had them cut and paste one of the "colony" images for use as the leader sticker.

But, hey, what's the point in holding back on groundless speculation? Could it be that there's a mechanism by which leaders get deposed, so you have to bring in a new leader? Probably not, but still...
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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kpishnery wrote:
This brings up a question I've been wondering...why in the world are you forced to use an enmity sticker for the Leaders when they could have just had an extra sticker on the sheet that didn't have the enmity marks on it? It would not have changed the cost of printing/materials/design at all.

Unless...speculation...it needed to be enmity for a later development in the campaign.


At very least it gives a quick visual reference that the enmity stickers on my stuff look exactly like the sticker on your leader. Beyond that, who knows? Could have been a logistical limitation, a late change, or something in-game.

 
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Keith Pishnery
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Becq wrote:
One less bit of art in need of development?


Trust me, I'm a graphic designer. It would take 5 literal seconds to replace one of the Enmity stickers with a non-Enmity province sticker, which they already have art for (glory tracker/flip of enmity token, etc).

jozxqk wrote:
At very least it gives a quick visual reference that the enmity stickers on my stuff look exactly like the sticker on your leader.


This makes a certain amount of sense and could be their thinking, but it's still awfully confusing to have an enmity sticker out on someone's stuff when it doesn't actually count as enmity. They even note this oddness on the Welcome sheet.

Leaves me wondering if it's a purposeful decision and for what purpose.
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It seems a lot more likely to me that they decided late in production (after the sticker sheets and card layouts had been designed) that the leader cards needed a little more explicit association with their provinces. I will be shocked and eat my hat if the enmity sticker has game relevance later in the campaign.
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Becq Starforged
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
It seems a lot more likely to me that they decided late in production (after the sticker sheets and card layouts had been designed) that the leader cards needed a little more explicit association with their provinces. I will be shocked and eat my hat if the enmity sticker has game relevance later in the campaign.

So ... what kind of hat?
 
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Becq wrote:
ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
It seems a lot more likely to me that they decided late in production (after the sticker sheets and card layouts had been designed) that the leader cards needed a little more explicit association with their provinces. I will be shocked and eat my hat if the enmity sticker has game relevance later in the campaign.

So ... what kind of hat?

A big floppy one with a peacock feather, suitable for the Emperor of the World, of course!
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Julius Besser
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
It seems a lot more likely to me that they decided late in production (after the sticker sheets and card layouts had been designed) that the leader cards needed a little more explicit association with their provinces. I will be shocked and eat my hat if the enmity sticker has game relevance later in the campaign.

Just to make it clear, when you say "the enmity sticker" you mean the specific enmity sticker on the leader cards? Or the idea of using enmity stickers as something other than enmity?
Just for clarity, so we can hold you to the hat thing.
 
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jayelbird wrote:
ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
It seems a lot more likely to me that they decided late in production (after the sticker sheets and card layouts had been designed) that the leader cards needed a little more explicit association with their provinces. I will be shocked and eat my hat if the enmity sticker has game relevance later in the campaign.

Just to make it clear, when you say "the enmity sticker" you mean the specific enmity sticker on the leader cards? Or the idea of using enmity stickers as something other than enmity?
Just for clarity, so we can hold you to the hat thing.

I meant the enmity sticker on the leader cards. I'm struggling to think of it as useful for anything other than faction identification. Maybe...leaders can change factions? Leaders can be raided directly? Leaders can board ships and contribute to the enmity totals on islands they visit? (But those last two would only be relevant when you raid a leader who has your own enmity stickers on it, and why would you be raiding your own leader? Revolution?)

Mostly, I think if the sticker on the leader had game significance then this mechanic would have been introduced into the game design early enough for them to know they would need to indicate a special place on the leader card to put it.
 
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Becq Starforged
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[q="ElAdoranSureshotI meant the enmity sticker on the leader cards. I'm struggling to think of it as useful for anything other than faction identification. Maybe...leaders can change factions? Leaders can be raided directly? Leaders can board ships and contribute to the enmity totals on islands they visit? (But those last two would only be relevant when you raid a leader who has your own enmity stickers on it, and why would you be raiding your own leader? Revolution?)

Mostly, I think if the sticker on the leader had game significance then this mechanic would have been introduced into the game design early enough for them to know they would need to indicate a special place on the leader card to put it.[/q]
See, he's wiggling out of it already. After all, a big means by which the sticker on the leader might come into play is for it to be covered up with another sticker. And then the original sticker on the card would be out of play, and therefor not used later in the game. So no hat meal!

You thought you were clever, but I figured out your sneaky plan!
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Here's a hat for you:
 
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Edward Haag
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I'm a bit confused as to why the leaders would need province identification in the first place. Isn't each leader card going to be with all their other province stuff in game, and in their own province box outside of the game?
 
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Becq Starforged
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EdHaag wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to why the leaders would need province identification in the first place. Isn't each leader card going to be with all their other province stuff in game, and in their own province box outside of the game?

I suspect it's not really necessary, though it's possible that using up that sticker is assumed as part of the balance. In any case, if you look at the picture Keith linked here (not really spoilers, but hey, why not be safe?)

...you can see that this demo group didn't feel the need to use those stickers.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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EdHaag wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to why the leaders would need province identification in the first place. Isn't each leader card going to be with all their other province stuff in game, and in their own province box outside of the game?


My place is not to question why, but merely where.
The only "why" that I know is that the "Prologue Instructions" tell you to do it

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/games/seafall/startingru...

With Legacy games, I feel like the "Why?" will be explained later.
Even if there's no real mechanical reason, it seems harmless enough.
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EdHaag wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to why the leaders would need province identification in the first place. Isn't each leader card going to be with all their other province stuff in game, and in their own province box outside of the game?


I assume it's less for your own benefit than for the other players. Those first couple games it might be helpful to be able to look at the leaders and remember who is playing green. Possibly even more so for groups that play infrequently. I'm aiming for a game every other week
 
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Becq wrote:
EdHaag wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to why the leaders would need province identification in the first place. Isn't each leader card going to be with all their other province stuff in game, and in their own province box outside of the game?

I suspect it's not really necessary, though it's possible that using up that sticker is assumed as part of the balance. In any case, if you look at the picture Keith linked here (not really spoilers, but hey, why not be safe?)

...you can see that this demo group didn't feel the need to use those stickers.

And I see that they're using the "blue" leader a 4-player game without the blue faction. So my assumption above about leaders matching the province colors might not be as solid as I thought.
 
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Becq Starforged
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I'm fairly sure the clothing is just clothing. The starter rules say that you choose your province color and your leader card. There are 10 leaders to choose from -- while it's possible that this means two designated leaders (male and female?) per faction, I think that if the leaders were faction-specific, they would have had colored borders/background/iconography like the faction boards have.

I could be wrong, of course, and regardless there's no reason you couldn't decide to match up the leaders the way you describe to make it more obvious (assuming, of course, that all of the colors are represented!)
 
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Becq wrote:
I'm fairly sure the clothing is just clothing. The starter rules say that you choose your province color and your leader card. There are 10 leaders to choose from -- while it's possible that this means two designated leaders (male and female?) per faction, I think that if the leaders were faction-specific, they would have had colored borders/background/iconography like the faction boards have.

I could be wrong, of course, and regardless there's no reason you couldn't decide to match up the leaders the way you describe to make it more obvious (assuming, of course, that all of the colors are represented!)

Oh for sure. And it does give players more freedom to mix and match their favorite portrait and province icon by not locking them together.

But to me, the color palettes of the previewed leaders we've seen so far just scream "blue dude" and "red lady". (Granted we have seen a minority of the art so far, but the color choices seem pretty strong to me. The tiny pixelated leaders in the twitter image, maybe not so much. Which does hurt my argument.) If I had to guess then I would say that they probably told an artist to make ten leaders in five different colors with the intent of associating each leader with a province. But then maybe they decided that the clothing colors were too subtle, or they wanted to give people more options when picking a portrait, so they went with a (kinda sloppy) fix by designating the province with an enmity sticker in an unspecified location on the card.

But that is all just a guess. The fact of the matter is that the rules of the game (well, the "welcome" sheet anyway) do tell you to put a province sticker on the card, so we should probably do it anyway.

Personally I plan to not sticker the leader cards and just remember who's who by putting things away in the correct box. If the presence of an enmity sticker on the leader ever becomes relevant, I'll retroactively put the stickers on and pretend we had them on the whole time. After eating my hat of course.
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Yannick Orbas
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Hi Daniel,

kannst Du schon sagen, wann die deutsche Anleitung zum Download zur Verfügung stehen wird?

Wäre toll, wenn das schon bald möglich wäre :-)

Viele Grüße,
Dirk
 
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