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Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: When exactly can Dragut Falls be played? rss

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Ryan Gill
United States
Los Angeles
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For example, if the Ottoman scores 2 hits and forces a card draw, do they have a chance of getting Dragut Falls before the card can be played. I don't see a ruling on the site, but this is the way I have seen it played since the wording says it is played after a piracy attempt (and rewards are part of the piracy attempt, in my opinion).

It is very clear that the die roll to see if Dragut lives or dies is after the rewards, but can the card be played in response to the piracy rolls and then after the full procedure is wrapped up the death die is rolled?

Here is the wording:

2 / Dragut Falls [RESPONSE]
Play just after a stack containing Dragut has been involved in a combat or piracy attempt. After finishing the combat or piracy procedure, roll a die. On a roll of 4, 5, or 6, eliminate Dragut from the game (place Uluch Ali with the leaders entering next turn). On a 1, 2, or 3, place Dragut on the Turn Track; he reenters play next turn. OR Play if Spain controls the Djerba/Tripoli space. Eliminate Dragut from the game, place Uluch Ali with the leaders entering next turn, and award 1 War Winner VP to Spain. Remove card from play if Dragut is eliminated.
 
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Philip Goldfarb Styrt
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"After finishing the combat or piracy procedure"--I would read this as indicating that you play the card first, THEN finish the procedure. So you could play Dragut Falls after they roll (involved in a...piracy attempt), then finish the procedure, but the card is already played before they would get any card draw. Otherwise I would think the card would say simply "play after resolving a combat or piracy attempt..." and not direct you to finish the procedure after playing it.
 
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John Nestor
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In the interest of fairness, I will state I am currently involved in the game with Ryan where this issue arose, but I am not playing Spain.

The issue is that the first sentence says "...play just AFTER a stack containing Dragut has been involved in a combat or piracy attempt". There is no word "then" in the second sentence.

So what constitutes a piracy attempt? Rule 16.4 defines the piracy procedure in detail step-by-step. Step 5 entitled "Roll Piracy Dice" includes text that defines the piracy awards and how they must be executed.

To accept the proposition that the card can be played before the issuing of piracy awards means that the piracy attempt is completed after the second sentence of step 5 but before the rest of step 5 of the piracy procedure is completed. This interpretation seems nonsensical to me.
 
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Frank Riskey
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Boise
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I am the poor Spaniard holding Dragut Falls. Dragut attempts piracy against me, I play Dragut Falls as a Response (interrupting the Ottoman impulse).

My understanding was that I could play Dragut Falls as a response, interrupting the Ottoman impulse. Then when the Ottoman piracy procedure is complete, the die is rolled for Dragut's fate.

Note the definition in the rules:

Response Cards
Cards with the name of the card in blue and the word “Response”
printed on them are Response cards. Response cards are playable as
an event in the Action Phase during any player’s impulse (including
your own). Play of a Response card interrupts a player’s impulse,
a battle, or an Event card play.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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Comfect wrote:
"After finishing the combat or piracy procedure"--I would read this as indicating that you play the card first, THEN finish the procedure. So you could play Dragut Falls after they roll (involved in a...piracy attempt), then finish the procedure, but the card is already played before they would get any card draw. Otherwise I would think the card would say simply "play after resolving a combat or piracy attempt..." and not direct you to finish the procedure after playing it.


That was also the meaning I tried to write in the game (also a player in it). If you cannot play it before awards are given, then the italic part and the first sentence of the normal text could just have been combined into one.

But it is also a strange case, if you have a die roll waiting to be done while giving out rewards.

We moved on in the game (and Ottoman ended up drawing Dragut Falls ), but nice to get a ruling on it eventually anyway.
 
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Rob Davidson
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You play Dragut Falls when the CP's for the piracy attempt have been declared and 'Storms' has NOT been played (which would have cancelled the attempt) Note that it is sufficient for Dragut to merely be in the sea zone with the stack; you can't 'hold' him out of combat to avoid this.

Note that as mentioned previously, it's played before resolution of the attempt; but resolved after the rolling for awards. Only 'Galleasses is played after the combat dice rolls as specified.

Now, if it's regular naval combat one must wait for all the intercept/avoid rolls to be completed. Once the naval combat is certain, then play before the resolution of the attack and resolve the results of the card after the combat dice are done. Why this? So you don't see the resolution before playing the response. Perhaps the stack with Dragut is eliminated, thus putting him on the turn track; you might not have played a 2cp card merely for a 50% chance to remove him from the game; here, you made your decision without knowing that fact.

A player that holds Dragut might consider the suicide squadron(s) to go after a Dragut held stack just to initiate this card play...I digress..

Some of the problem is the disjointed nature of ACTS play as opposed to live play; which of course is the standard. In ACTS play, one often sees ALL of the resolution of an action before any response card play; which might lend apparent credence to the thought that Dragut might be 'in hand' to be drawn as a reward.
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John Nestor
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Maryland
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Can you cite an authority for this interpretation?

I am still not convinced.

A piracy attempt or naval combat is defined by completing ALL of the steps of the appropriate procedure. If your interpretation was intended, why use the phrase "after involvement" instead of a phrase such as "during" or "while" or "after declaration of the action".

I think we need the game designer, Ed Beach, to rule on this question.
 
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