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Subject: Playing PL with AIW ruleset? rss

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Antonio Sarabia
Mexico
Colima
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Hello, first post ever (:

Long story short, a friend and I would like to pick up PL as our first wargame, we like its complexity level as well as its component availability (PnP-ish and a ton of playable material)

We were wondering: is it possible to retrorun PL games with the AIW ruleset? We know it fixed some issues with PL (as PL did with PB), but are the unit stats compatible? I read the speed was fixed, but we can't understand the impact that has on playability. Do scenarios become very unbalanced? Perhaps we should start with PL rules after all, and then switch/houserule things as we see fit, but we we're thinking maybe there's no need to do all that.

Well, that's it. We're excited to start the hobby!
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Peter Lloyd
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Generally you should stick with the Panzer Leader rules until you learn the system. AIW does generally improve the system, but there are other things which will mess up the play balance.
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Scott Clinton
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I actually disagree. I have played both ways, I prefer the corrected indirect fire rules explained by the designer in the designer notes in the back of "The Arab-Israeli Wars". IMO, they add more than anything else and alone is worthwhile IMHO.

The changes in movement rates, also IMO, do not alter the play balance enough to warrant the roadrunner like speeds that armor units have in the original Panzer Leader game. But, again, that is of lessor concern to me than the indirect fire rules.

The below is from another post I made not but a few days ago...that thread seemed to melt down. I am too old to do that so I left.

Take it for what it is intended, just information.

The Arab Israeli Wars - Designer's Notes, p29 wrote:
...two changes that were made to correct fundamental problems with the game design. First, virtually all movement rates have been considerably reduced. Movement rates in the previous games were far too high, permitting movement far greater than realistically possible...

To reduce the moment rates, the criteria for establishing speed was altered. In Panzer Leader, speed in miles-per-hour was divided by three to give the moment rate. This was changed. In Arab-Israeli Wars, the speed in miles-per-hour was divided by five (or in kilometers-per-hour by eight). To convert previous moment rates to make them comparable with those in Arab-Israeli Wars, multiply a vehicular rate by .6 ...

The second change in the unit counters also resulted from a fundamental change in the game design. Indirect fire was treated very simplistically in Panzer Leader...

The revised indirect fire rule applies the total number of indirect firing points against each unit in the target hex. To make this possible without making indirect fire excessively powerful, it was necessary to divide the attack strength of indirect fire units (all '(H)' - class units) by four. The strength of mortars was also reduced, but not as severely...
[note: this turns out to be divide by 1.6 for 'M' class units]


YMMV,
GG
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Juan Valdez
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plloyd1010 wrote:
Generally you should stick with the Panzer Leader rules until you learn the system. AIW does generally improve the system, but there are other things which will mess up the play balance.


Based on my experience with PB and AIW, I have to agree.
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Confusion Under Fire
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Just had a Doh! moment. I misread AIW as AWI (American War of Independance) and wondered how on earth you were going to use a WW2 rulest for an 18th century wargame.
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Antonio Sarabia
Mexico
Colima
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Thank you all for your answers!
It's nice to find an active community around, speaks volumes of the quality of the game

We decided to go with basic PL for now, and switch to the indirect fire mechanic as soon as possible. The speed and all other tweaks will have to wait until we become more experienced with gameplay and mechanics.

I'll be reporting soon from the frontlines.

GG, everyone
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Byron Henderson
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I'll add that there are some AIW rules that can be back-fitted easily (Morale and the AIW version of overruns come to mind) without any issues and they do add to the enjoyment of the game without affecting the scenario balance.
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