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Haven't played Pathfinder the card game. But after watching some reviews I realised that it was not for me.
I hope this game plays different (and it sure sounds like it).
Have any of you guys played Pathfinder? What's your opinion on the difference between the two games?
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I have played Pathfinder TCG and although I haven´t played this one yet, I can tell there are many differences and they are two completely different games. Probably the only thing that really have in common is that they incorporate some form of character progression and campaign play, but that also is handled in very different ways.

To outline the first that I can think of from what we know:

- AH seems to have a lot more story text than Pathfinder (Acts and Agendas) in its scenarios, and thus probably have more cohesive narrative than Pathfinder in terms of scenario and campaign story

- AH does not use dice. Pathfinder does.

- Scenarios in Pathfinder are all quite similar. In AH they seem to be more varied in term of how they play, objectives, locations involved, variations etc

- AH has an inventory slot system that Pathfinder lacks. Although Pathfinder does limit what type of cards you can have in your deck depending on class and level, it does not limit as much as AH does how to play them (you can play several weapons at the same time, for example). I believe AH will be a bit more realistic in this regard and definitely will make for very different gameplay experience.

- Cards are played from your hand in completely different ways in both. AH has a resource system to pay for cards that Pathfinder doesnt have.

- HP system for characters is also treated differently (in Pathfinder your deck is your HP while AH has a more traditional HP system). There is also Horror cards in AH that you have to keep in your hand as a burden. This feature dose not exist in Pathfinder

- Character progression in Pathfinder seems more involved, more akin to traditional RPGs (you can change many stats and traits from your character, not only your deck of cards). AH handles this in a more simplified way, it seems, just by giving you more powerful versions of your cards and probably letting you include more cards also, but stats and traits dont seem to change (although who knows, maybe Investigator cards have more powerful versions of themselves also, we still dont know)



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I've played Arkham Horror the board game. I've played P:ACG. But I havent played AH:tCG so its hard to say. You didn't tell us why you decided P:ACG wasn't for you so its even harder to give my opinion in a way that will be useful to you. I haven't played Lord of the Rings the Card Game either and I think that's the other piece of the puzzle.

Arkham Horror - cool adventure board game that I like because I love the "evil happens" mythos deck and the mini location decks and how I can use different characters, items, spells to have survive different encounters.

Pathfinder: Adventure Card Game - cool adventure card game that I like because I can level up my character(s) as I play. I can swap cards from my deck for better cards I find. I can add additional cards to my deck, or gain new special powers and dice modifiers.

Why didn't you like it? Most common complaints are - no full story, you have to add your own reasonings for why youre encountering what youre encountering or DICE or too repetitive in cornering the bad guy each scenario. My responses to those are - I will trade off the story for the randomized replayability, I don't hate dice, and later boxes have somewhat addressed the repetitiveness BUT most games only have ONE scenario/way to play so why is this game getting killed for not having enough? Makes no sense.

LOTR Card Game - Ive thought about buying it on a few occasions so I've read quite a bit about it. The reason I have never pulled the trigger is because the deckbuilding between adventures seems odd. Its seems to be - play an adventure, get destroyed because youre not prepared for it, rebuild your deck for the things youve seen, play again and either win or lose cuz of other new tricks, rebuild deck again, repeat. THAT seems like the game is in the meta-game, where you build your deck out of game. I'd much rather the game be about how I use the cards I have or what order I do things in or who I have attempt things than it being more about how well I built a deck out of game. But since I haven't played, my impression could be wrong. It could be that many of the reviews and comments about the game focus on the deckbuilding because that is what attracts those players. I don't know for certain.

Arkham Horror: the Card Game - This looks like some of the good qualities and theming of Arkham, mixed with the leveling up of P:ACG mixed with some of the tricks FFG has learned from LOTR:CG. It does seem to provide a way to deckbuild between games but I'm hoping that there are certain cards only available through certain in-game activities. I like that you have actions/gameplay outside of just the cards in your hand too.

Is it the best of 3 worlds? Maybe. We won't know until... oh wait, while I was typing this Team Covenant just put up a YouTube video of a demo from GenCon so I'm gonna go watch that.
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Thanks for the reply's guys! You have thoroughly convinced me that I have reason to be excited about this game. It sounds truly awesome from your descriptions!

Quote:
Why didn't you like it? Most common complaints are - no full story, you have to add your own reasonings for why youre encountering what youre encountering or DICE or too repetitive in cornering the bad guy each scenario. My responses to those are - I will trade off the story for the randomized replayability, I don't hate dice, and later boxes have somewhat addressed the repetitiveness BUT most games only have ONE scenario/way to play so why is this game getting killed for not having enough? Makes no sense.


I haven't played it (PACG). So it might be very good. But looking at the play through videos I tend to agree with the complaints listed above. Besides it just seemed too random.
But that's just me guessing. And I aleady have about 30 games that I haven't played yet (damn you kickstarter). So I never got around to buying it.
 
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lugiber wrote:


I haven't played it (PACG). So it might be very good. But looking at the play through videos I tend to agree with the complaints listed above. Besides it just seemed too random.
But that's just me guessing. And I aleady have about 30 games that I haven't played yet (damn you kickstarter). So I never got around to buying it.


Well, I think its safe to say even this early that Arkham will have quite a bit more story/flavor. I'm not sure how the decks are created, but I'd guess they're pre-built or specifically constructed and not randomized like Pathfinder. Plus, the intro and outro to the scenario will have more fluff.

As for the dice. The demo video from GenCon shows that tests are resolved with character's base abilities plus "the chaos bag" which is basically a bag of tokens that have modifiers to the check and even auto-fails. So the "luck" factor might be even worse in Arkham as most humans know the probability of dice pretty quickly, but learning the probability of the bag might take time?

And as for the repetitiveness, well, we've only seen half of one scenario now which is "gather X clues to move on" and didnt even get to the end to see a "boss fight". Will every scenario just be gather X clues? Maybe, but probably not. And FFGs usual quick release schedule might be able to address it quicker?

My concern is that the leveling up mechanic might not be as fleshed out as I want it to be. But I'm attached enough to Arkham and its denizens that I'm going to be on board at the beginning anyway.

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stevelabny wrote:


LOTR Card Game - Ive thought about buying it on a few occasions so I've read quite a bit about it. The reason I have never pulled the trigger is because the deckbuilding between adventures seems odd. Its seems to be - play an adventure, get destroyed because youre not prepared for it, rebuild your deck for the things youve seen, play again and either win or lose cuz of other new tricks, rebuild deck again, repeat. THAT seems like the game is in the meta-game, where you build your deck out of game. I'd much rather the game be about how I use the cards I have or what order I do things in or who I have attempt things than it being more about how well I built a deck out of game. But since I haven't played, my impression could be wrong. It could be that many of the reviews and comments about the game focus on the deckbuilding because that is what attracts those players. I don't know for certain.


I have LoTR card game and your thoughts align with mine. I find the deckbuilding quite time consuming. Don't get me wrong, there are players that love doing that but I find making 50 card decks (and if you play dual handling that's 2 x 50 for a solo player) is mind numbing to do for EVERY scenario. I'm hoping AH card game has a consistent smaller deck AND is playable with one character for all scenarios. LoTR seems more suitable for 2 players. Obviously my opinion, I'm sure others disagree.
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Leveling up will just be an XP system, you get XP for winning, plus any victory points you got (you can spend more time to get more victory points but might risk losing). You spend those xp on better versions of cards.

You can also gain assets or weaknesses from the scenarios themselves.

I think investigating locations will be a key factor, but likely some will have alternative ways of doing that such as more combat orientated scenarios where defeating enemies could give clues.

Also it seems you probably might not have to go into every location to win, there is some exploration to it. Locations are scenario specific, so some could have more red herrings and such.

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cranky_hobbit wrote:

I have LoTR card game and your thoughts align with mine. I find the deckbuilding quite time consuming. Don't get me wrong, there are players that love doing that but I find making 50 card decks (and if you play dual handling that's 2 x 50 for a solo player) is mind numbing to do for EVERY scenario. I'm hoping AH card game has a consistent smaller deck AND is playable with one character for all scenarios. LoTR seems more suitable for 2 players. Obviously my opinion, I'm sure others disagree.


Just based on the demo, I would say this will scale better than LotR. Later quests for LotR scaled a lot better for player count but they failed with the earlier quests.

This starts off with decent scaling on how many clues needed to advance, and how many on each location, and each player draws their own bad card to resolve. You can split up and face things alone, or travel together and help each other out.
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cranky_hobbit wrote:
stevelabny wrote:


LOTR Card Game - Ive thought about buying it on a few occasions so I've read quite a bit about it. The reason I have never pulled the trigger is because the deckbuilding between adventures seems odd. Its seems to be - play an adventure, get destroyed because youre not prepared for it, rebuild your deck for the things youve seen, play again and either win or lose cuz of other new tricks, rebuild deck again, repeat. THAT seems like the game is in the meta-game, where you build your deck out of game. I'd much rather the game be about how I use the cards I have or what order I do things in or who I have attempt things than it being more about how well I built a deck out of game. But since I haven't played, my impression could be wrong. It could be that many of the reviews and comments about the game focus on the deckbuilding because that is what attracts those players. I don't know for certain.


I have LoTR card game and your thoughts align with mine. I find the deckbuilding quite time consuming. Don't get me wrong, there are players that love doing that but I find making 50 card decks (and if you play dual handling that's 2 x 50 for a solo player) is mind numbing to do for EVERY scenario. I'm hoping AH card game has a consistent smaller deck AND is playable with one character for all scenarios. LoTR seems more suitable for 2 players. Obviously my opinion, I'm sure others disagree.


Not entirely accurate re: LOTR. I play extensively and I seldom build decks, and never based on a scenario that is defeating me, only when I feel like a cool new archetype. LOTR does work best at 2 players though - no question. I also consistently win, but having played since release with 3 cores and all expansions (including Nightmare packs) means that experience and a huge player card pool make my decks fairly buff. Love LOTR. Love it so much.

I am definitely getting Arkham Horror LCG though, co-op LCG in the Cthulhu Mythos designed by Nate French? TAKE MY MONEY NOOOWWWWW!!!!!
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lugiber wrote:
Haven't played Pathfinder the card game. But after watching some reviews I realised that it was not for me.
I hope this game plays different (and it sure sounds like it).
Have any of you guys played Pathfinder? What's your opinion on the difference between the two games?

I've played a lot of Pathfinder card games but this game seems totally different and in a really good way!

As for watching reviews, check out the demo video:
https://youtu.be/yjkMVLgouts
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lugiber wrote:
So this is Pathfinder the card game in the Lovecraft universe?


No, fortunately it is not!

It is the love-child of The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game and Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game, with some parental-advice from Android: Netrunner.

Bye
Thanee
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stevelabny wrote:
Pathfinder: Adventure Card Game - cool adventure card game that I like because I can level up my character(s) as I play. I can swap cards from my deck for better cards I find. I can add additional cards to my deck, or gain new special powers and dice modifiers.

Why didn't you like it? Most common complaints are - no full story, you have to add your own reasonings for why youre encountering what youre encountering or DICE or too repetitive in cornering the bad guy each scenario. My responses to those are - I will trade off the story for the randomized replayability, ...
That's a good point: You can pick replayability, or you can pick story, but it's tough to expect both.

Plus PACG has made a lot of $$$ by being a very easy game to get into. The mechanics are easy to learn, easy to teach, and you don't need to learn a pile of backstory just to play. I realize BGG is full of gamers who have 500 games sitting on the shelf, so a lot of the dismissal of PACG comes off as "Well, I want something deeper and more story-driven!" which is fine, but I think we can agree PACG is likely still going to be a far easier game for casuals to get into. If this new Arkham Horror is anything like the LOTR LCG, then you're going to need to be at least a wee bit dedicated to get the most out of it.

Which isn't a bad thing, just saying both games have their strengths/weaknesses, and the AH LCG might not be for everyone.
 
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Acererak wrote:
- AH seems to have a lot more story text than Pathfinder (Acts and Agendas) in its scenarios, and thus probably have more cohesive narrative than Pathfinder in terms of scenario and campaign story

With the downloadable fan-made PACG Adventure Guides, there is a fair amount of story text, and quite a bit of cohesive narrative. I agree that the game as shipped was lacking in those areas.

Quote:
- AH has an inventory slot system that Pathfinder lacks. Although Pathfinder does limit what type of cards you can have in your deck depending on class and level, it does not limit as much as AH does how to play them (you can play several weapons at the same time, for example).

I can't quite tell, but it sounds like you think you can play multiple weapons at a time in PACG. Generally, you cannot. You could have several in your hand, but the only time a character can play more than one weapon on a single check is if the weapon specifically allows it. For example, you can do a little extra damage with a dagger while attacking with your primary weapon.


I'm about to go watch the AH:LCG video, because I am quite curious about it. I disliked the deck construction of LotR:LCG, but it sounds like this should fix that. I fear the game play in AH:LCG might still be a bit convoluted for my tastes, and there's no way I'm going to buy a steady stream of expansions, so the base game needs to be more complete than LotR:LCG was.
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This looks 10X better than the Pathfinder Card Game.
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peakhope wrote:

Quote:
- AH has an inventory slot system that Pathfinder lacks. Although Pathfinder does limit what type of cards you can have in your deck depending on class and level, it does not limit as much as AH does how to play them (you can play several weapons at the same time, for example).

I can't quite tell, but it sounds like you think you can play multiple weapons at a time in PACG. Generally, you cannot. You could have several in your hand, but the only time a character can play more than one weapon on a single check is if the weapon specifically allows it. For example, you can do a little extra damage with a dagger while attacking with your primary weapon.


You are completely right, and probably my example was a bit misleading, although not completely wrong. In Pathfinder there is a logic behind the cards you play as well, they mimic a DnD RPG combat in a very smart way. But probably a bit more clunky than AH is going to do that also.

Don´t get me wrong, I loved PACG and will always thank Mike and the crew for narrowing the board game and RPG boundaries a bit more the way they did. And in a way, they probably set the first stone of this new Boardgamish RPG era we are living in. But the system is a bit rough in some edges, so to speak. And story wise this AH card game seems to be more close to hit the mark with its scenarios and campaigns. And I am a sucker for narrative and story.
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peakhope wrote:
I disliked the deck construction of LotR:LCG, but it sounds like this should fix that.


Yeah, it seems like it is a bit easier with the deck building.

Smaller decks, limited choices in the beginning ("types" and "levels" depending on which investigator you play), some cards being added automatically with each investigator.

And then you will improve your deck step by step when you level up.

Sounds to me like the deck building will be stretched-out a bit over the course of the campaign that way, and thus be done in smaller steps, which should help out.

Bye
Thanee
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There was an absurd amount of shuffling in Pathfinder ACG. Doesn't seem to be anything quite like that in this game, from what I've seen. That's a huge plus in favor of AH:TCG, in my opinion.
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c4dillon wrote:
There was an absurd amount of shuffling in Pathfinder ACG. Doesn't seem to be anything quite like that in this game, from what I've seen. That's a huge plus in favor of AH:TCG, in my opinion.

Yeah, this really sounds like a great game! You guys had me convinced weeks ago.
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c4dillon wrote:
There was an absurd amount of shuffling in Pathfinder ACG.

Interesting. I don't remember that much shuffling, although there was more in S&S than in RotR, and some characters cause more shuffling than others.

In our last RotR campaign, I would guess we reshuffled our player decks maybe once or twice per game, and each location deck maybe an average of once or twice after per game, after setup.

This probably isn't the right place for that discussion, so we can just leave it as "ymmv".
 
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lugiber wrote:
Haven't played Pathfinder the card game. But after watching some reviews I realised that it was not for me.
I hope this game plays different (and it sure sounds like it).
Have any of you guys played Pathfinder? What's your opinion on the difference between the two games?
Seems more like a hybrid of The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game and Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game to me. Which is a good thing IMO and I'm really looking forward to buying a copy to occupy myself while the family are away camping and I'm "stuck at home, cat-sitting".
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The upcoming Apocrypha Adventure Card Game from Lone Shark Games is very close to PACG in a horror universe. It's coming at about the same time as AH and will include more than 1300 cards at launch.
 
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
The upcoming Apocrypha Adventure Card Game from Lone Shark Games is very close to PACG in a horror universe. It's coming at about the same time as AH and will include more than 1300 cards at launch.

I just looked at the preorder for Apocrypha and it says 500 cards for twice the cost of Arkham Horror. But I don't mistake quantity for quality.

I really enjoyed the first PACG because it was really different. The follow on sets were just too much more of the same. While Apocrypha may be a refined version, it's still based on the same design.

Arkham Horror (since that is the subject of this forum...) is a new design that looks to be really thematic and engaging and not at all like the Pathfinder game.

Check out the latest article about how the scenarios play: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/8/25/clues-c...

Seems really great and I can't wait for an entire campaign!

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