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Subject: Team Covenenant GenCon Demo Video is out rss

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Allan Clements
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Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
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Georg Bauer
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Yeah, this looks fantastic. I wish I could play it right now. Definitely get a strong Elder Sign vibe from that play through, but with interesting ways to customize your investigator.
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Tom Tjarks
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Okay, this is building the hype for me.


First, I love the card back for the player cards.

The mechanics look good for a co-op.

... Words fail me further. Must keep watching.
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Manu
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Looks positively fantastic.
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Allan Clements
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Difficulty settings! and each scenario has different effects for the special chaos tokens! Love it.
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Tom Tjarks
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And I want that playmat.
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Jim Parkin
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Lovin it!

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Alan Castree
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What da heck?!
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I'm still wondering how I feel about drawing from the Chaos Bag. I guess it's similar to every other CoC game (dice rolls), but I would hate that succeeding and failing just come down to luck... maybe it's not all that bad since it seems there's things they can do to modify their checks and they should know the max penalty if they pull the worst token (unless its that auto fail token). Someone please talk me through this! (~_~;
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Adam Clausing
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I have Arkham Horror and the various expansions. I didn't see and duplicate artwork on the cards here, which is a big plus in my opinion.

Anyone identify duplicate card artwork from Eldrich Horror or anywhere else?
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Tom Tjarks
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There is some luck, but how you set up the play before you pull from the bag is going to mitigate that. Once you get the game and get a feel for the distribution of tokens, you'll be able to figure out when to push your luck or when you are secure in your roll from all but the auto fail. (And we learned that the auto fail isn't an absolute.)
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Nushura
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I am surprised they went to token bag. Why not make it a die and just roll it? I hope someone does a custom one that matches the same chances!
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Jim Parkin
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Nushura wrote:
I am surprised they went to token bag. Why not make it a die and just roll it? I hope someone does a custom one that matches the same chances!

Reaching into a big black bag filled with chaos is far more ominous than a die roll.
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Georg Bauer
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Nushura wrote:
I am surprised they went to token bag. Why not make it a die and just roll it? I hope someone does a custom one that matches the same chances!


I think one reason might be that scenarios can set up the chaos bag differently. With dice, you allways have the same things as outcomes and the probabilities stay the same. Sure, you can go crazy with tons of different dice where you ask the player to roll some specific ones, but I guess chits make it easier to for example have special chits in deluxe expansions for special mechanics of only that cycle.

Well, at least that's what I hope for, maybe even adding player chits you can thrown in the bag when you have a specific ability to have something to help you every now and than and stuff like that. Would make sense, mechanically, and would be cool.

Edit: and the difficulty setting is using the configureable chaos bag, too, according to the video.
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David Boeren
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ACGalaga wrote:
I'm still wondering how I feel about drawing from the Chaos Bag. I guess it's similar to every other CoC game (dice rolls), but I would hate that succeeding and failing just come down to luck... maybe it's not all that bad since it seems there's things they can do to modify their checks and they should know the max penalty if they pull the worst token (unless its that auto fail token). Someone please talk me through this!


It's not really different from LotR. There has to be an element of uncertainty somewhere or it just becomes a puzzle.

In LotR this is represented by flipping over cards. You don't know how much additional threat will come out during questing, and you don't know what shadow effects might occur in combat. This is a random effect, and you mitigate it by over-committing or having cards in your hand or abilities on the table to deal with unexpected bad luck.

Arkham does the same thing through a token draw, and you will mitigate it in similar ways.
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mathew rynich
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I'm not sure that's any different from drawing a card of the top of the LOTR:LCG encounter deck.

Also AH the board game had you pulling tokens out of a bag for several mechanics (gates tiles, monster tokens) I think it's fits well. Games need some level of randomness to generate suspense otherwise it's just an exercise in procedural thinking.
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Arthur Peterson
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Quote:
Definitely get a strong Elder Sign vibe


How the heck does this look anything like Yahtzee?
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Jim Parkin
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zpeteman wrote:
Quote:
Definitely get a strong Elder Sign vibe


How the heck does this look anything like Yahtzee?

Match them symbols!
 
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Allan Clements
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The tokens seem fine, it stops it being just pure math, which is good. You can just try the same thing again most of the time if you fail. You can overshoot just to make sure, but sometimes you might have to take chances.

Since it is bag, it is also possible that even outside of setup, you could add extra tokens to the bag, imagine adding more elder sign tokens to the bag as you "seal gates" to increase the chances of them coming up.

I imagine it was originally dice, but they decided to make it more variable, and I guess it is cheaper than producing a bunch of custom dice.

I think my favourite thing was when she mentioned that if you attack an enemy engaged with another player and fail you hit the other player instead. Perhaps there will be rules about taking mental damage if you do the last damage to a player

Willpower seems like the weakest attribute, strength was for fighting, agility was for evading, lore was for investigating, but didn't seem to be much for willpower?
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Richard A. Edwards
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In the video, they mentioned the test starts with their attribute colored to a game value (Book versus Shroud to investigate) then you can play cards with matching icons to buff it up. She even said another player can discard a card to add it's icons to your check.

This hardly seems totally random, but rather a brilliant way to make players make hard choices. You might want to keep a card to play it in the future but you want the icons now to buff a test. Do you keep it or toss it?

And some characters (maybe cards)? Seem to have abilities to redraw (at a cost, the character in the demo has to discard a card).

Doesn't really seem all that random but rather lets you determine how much risk you want to take at various costs.
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Stephen Cope
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The bag seems fine from a mechanical standpoint, but from a logistical standpoint, I think dice would be better. Rolling a die is quicker, less fiddly, and in my opinion, more fun.

But perhaps the ability to tweak the difficulty on such a fine scale is worth the cumbersome nature of a tile bag. Tile bag or dice, the game looks rad.
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Allan Clements
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I think they could also release an app to replace the bag for a slightly quicker version.

You do have to commit cards before the chaos is drawn, but there are also cards which can react to the test afterwards too (they seem to mostly bein survival)
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David Boeren
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Dice are less adjustable than a bag of tokens. They already use it for modifying the difficulty level of the quest, I expect you may also see special abilities that do things like adding "good" tokens to the bag, or "locking" a bad token you've drawn so it does not return to the bag, or saving a good token for later use, etc...

There is a lot you can do with the bag that you cannot do easily with dice that have fixed symbols and fixed numbers of sides on them.

Yes, pitching cards for bonuses is a cool mechanic as well and I like it when cards have alternate uses. This both helps prevent dead cards in your hand and brings up additional tough decisions for the player.
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Tyler
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bfchooch wrote:

The bag seems fine from a mechanical standpoint, but from a logistical standpoint, I think dice would be better. Rolling a die is quicker, less fiddly, and in my opinion, more fun.

That was my first thought on hearing about pulling tokens from a bag. In Arkham and Eldritch Horror, "where's the gate bag/monster cup/whatever gone?" is a common question. This game's bag sounds like it gets pulled from much more often, but I can see the time spent on passing it around adding up.
 
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mandingoman wrote:
I have Arkham Horror and the various expansions. I didn't see and duplicate artwork on the cards here, which is a big plus in my opinion.

Anyone identify duplicate card artwork from Eldrich Horror or anywhere else?


The Character art, so far as I've seen, is the same as it is in Eldritch Horror.
 
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Jim Parkin
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dboeren wrote:
There is a lot you can do with the bag that you cannot do easily with dice that have fixed symbols and fixed numbers of sides on them.

To quote the renowned paranormal investigator, Christopher Bridges,

"What in the world is in that BAG? Whatchu got in that BAG?"

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