$30.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

MBT (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Spotting Question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Peter Gibson
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Tell me if I have this right:

In the spotting phase, units are checked to see it they are spotted or not.
If they are spotted they retain the move/spot or fire/sport marker they were given in the previous turn when they moved/fired.
If they are not spotted then their move/spot or fire/spot markers are removed.

If that is correct, what marker is used to indicated a unit is spotted on turn 1 or any other turn of a game when they have neither moved or spotted on the previous turn? Do they get a move/spot or fire/spot marker?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ahmed Hadzi
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unit should receive spot move/fire marker as soon as you reveal the order for that unit, if it doesn't have any. Or flip it to correct side to match the order if the unit already has the marker.

So for example on T1, if you issue a Move order to a stack, all units in that stack receive spot move. If they peak a beak at some point and the enemy wants to Overwatch fire at them, this spot move marker would be evaluated when determining if they can be seen or not.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Day
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oskacat wrote:
Tell me if I have this right:

In the spotting phase, units are checked to see it they are spotted or not.
If they are spotted they retain the move/spot or fire/sport marker they were given in the previous turn when they moved/fired.
If they are not spotted then their move/spot or fire/spot markers are removed.

If that is correct, what marker is used to indicated a unit is spotted on turn 1 or any other turn of a game when they have neither moved or spotted on the previous turn? Do they get a move/spot or fire/spot marker?

Your statements are correct. See section 4.1.3, 4th paragraph, no counters are used for base range spotting.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Gibson
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Great thanks!

I'm enjoying MBT - it is taking me back to my younger days when I played Boots and Saddles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B. B.
Germany
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Example: US unit A spot Soviet unit B during the Spotting Phase, because Soviet unit B is within the spotting range and in line-of-sight of US unit A. Soviet unit B is not marked with a Spot Fire/Move counter. US unit C cannot spot Soviet unit B, because it is out of the spotting range, but it has a clear line-of-sight to Soviet unit B. The Soviet player is the first player. During the Combat Phase the Soviet unit B eliminates the US unit A. The Soviet unit B is marked with a Spot Fire counter (placed partially under the Command counter to indicate that this spotting does not count during the current Combat Phase; to attack the Soviet unit B it has to be spotted during the previous Spotting Phase (see 4.4.1 first point)). The US player wants to attack the Soviet unit B with the US unit C. But of course the Soviet unit C is still not in spotting range.

Questions:

(1) Is the US unit C allowed to attack the Soviet unit B (although US unit C is not able to spot the enemy during the previous Spotting Phase)? Remeber: Soviet unit B is a spotted unit during the previos Spotting Phase. But it was spotted by another unit than the attacking unit.

(2) If the answer to question (1) is NO, why do we have to check for Spotting during the Spotting Phase when You have to check whether an individual unit is able to spot a target during the Combat Phase again?
(3) If the answer to question (1) is YES, how should the players remember all the spotted units (without Spot Fire/Move counters) until the Combat Phase begins when they are not marked with a special Spot counter?

EDIT: I changed the wrong unit denotation of Soviet unit B at the end of the example.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Pelkey
United States
Wallkill
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think you mean can US unit C attack Soviet unit B, a Soviet unit C mysteriously flew in from nowhere at the end of the example.

The answer is No, with an exception.

You have to check for spotting before the Commands are given. If US unit C was given a Fire or Short Halt command, it can only fire at targets that US unit C could spot for itself in the Spotting Phase. It cannot fire at Soviet unit B. Units never "World of Tanks Style" spot for each other.

If US unit C was given an Overwatch command, it can optionally fire at Soviet unit B (with OW penalties) at the conclusion of the Direct Fire step. At that point in time, a unit with an Overwatch command can re-spot using the new Spot-Fire counter Soviet unit B just acquired. The same is true of Overwatch commanded units in the Movement Phase.

So the answer to (2) is that that you are really only verifying spotting in the Combat Phase, it was checked before the commands were given and the new Spot-Fire counter does not count against Soviet Unit B for Units with Fire/Short-Halt commands. Overwatch is the exception to this rule, and is optional for units that have that command.

In other words, the Spotting Phase is really a check to see which units can be given Fire or Short Halt commands during the Command Phase.







 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B. B.
Germany
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Then I think, I misunderstand the spotting rules completely. I thought that if an enemy unit is spotted by a friendly unit, then this spotting counts for all friendly units.

If this is not the case then it is a unit-by-unit process - which makes sense, by the way.

I thought they wanted to make it easy. Something like: If an enemy unit is marked as spotted during the Spotting Phase, then it counts as spotted for all friendly units and they are allowed to give them appropriate commands during the following Command Phase and can attack them (of course only if in line-of-sight) during the following Combat Phase.

If this is not the case, then the question remains why the Spotting Phase and the Command Phase are separated from each other.

When there are a lot of units on the table and You have to check on a unit-to-unit basis, how could You remember if a specific unit is able to spot an enemy or not during the Command Phase, so that You know whether You can give it a Fire or Short Halt command or not?

Wouldn't it be better to cancel the Spotting Phase and to do spot checking directly during the Command Phase?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Pelkey
United States
Wallkill
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Spotting Phase is also a status check for units to remove Spot-Move or Spot-Fire Counters, if no enemy can spot them. But otherwise, yes the Spotting and Command Phase kind of overlap.

The discussion in the rules about continuity of spotting is there to illustrate that it doesn't matter if a new unit is now doing the spotting in the Spotting phase. In your example, US unit C will now more than likely "maintain the spot" on Soviet unit B due to the Spot-Fire counter in the next turn's spotting phase, since the spotting range will be drastically increased, the next turn. (and it doesn't matter if the original spotting unit was destroyed)

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B. B.
Germany
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Okay. I think, I got it so far. I'm still waiting for my game. My questions came up while I read the rules only.

Thank You for help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.